REAR ARM ALIGNMENT Video in slow motion, what not to do..

[Wolf Shield]

used an iphone to take video of form and slowed it down to 10% for 8 shots of longbow shooting.

Notice the poor rear elbow alignment, and the effect to the torque in the bow arm.

You can see the string is going one direction, the elbow another direction, and the arrow a 3rd direction.

Need to bring the elbow and close the alignment.  

 

[NBK]

Randy,
Video is a great tool isn't it!
How's your shooting?  Are you happy with it because you seem to be grouping pretty good.
It's easy to critique shooting form, heck you've diagnosed yourself, harder to implement though.
Two main things I see.
#1:  you're creeping before release.  You have good rearward motion once the arrow goes, but your collapsing just prior to that point.  If its tough to concentrate on maintaining your back tension on the draw arm, then try focusing on keeping good pressure on the bow with your bow hand/arm.  It's a ying and yang kind of thing.  If your keeping focused pressure forward, the rearward pressure has to match.  I think a lot of collapsing of the draw elbow is a result of the bow shoulder collapsing in toward your body.
#2:  you're right in that your not in alignment with your drawing elbow and its a tad high.  I experienced the same thing and followed Terry's form clock and moebows vids on rotational draw to try and correct.  One thing that helped me was to focus on getting my draw hand in line with the string prior to pulling.  It took some torque out of the string and allowed my elbow to ride lower because it engages your back more than your rear delts.  You can get your elbow back in line with the arrow more without necessarily having to change your anchor because at that point of the draw its more "around" than "back".
Clear as mud right?!
Hopefully better shooters than myself will chime in and give you more insight.  Good luck!
And nice looking bow by the way.

[moebow]

I sent this response to Randy, though I'd post here too.

"Looks like you have a pretty good shot overall.  I do see a couple things for you to consider.

Your draw is OK, but your string wrist is pretty straight.  Try a few shots where you really exaggerate the wrist out.  If you have seen my videos, I show the wrist in the "release tips" video.  Getting that wrist out more will automatically move the string elbow around behind you farther.   www.youtube.com/user/TheMoebow1

I think this will help with the small collapse you show in the videos, you aren't quite getting to bone on bone support for the bow weight.  Also, as you draw, try to point your shoulders more at the target.  This isn't much movement, but think about trying to get your shoulders at least parallel to the arrow.  They appear to be a little open to the target right now.

Finally, you are shooting at a target that is down on the ground.  A common error folks make when doing that is to just lower the bow arm to set the sight picture.  This steals the strength of the bow arm being 90 degrees to the spine and places more bow weight back into the muscles rather than on the bones.  Try this:  Draw as though you are going to shoot at a target on the horizon -- this sets the 90 degree angle needed.  THEN, bend forward at the waist to lower your entire power unit to your aiming alignment.  (Power unit is bow hand to string elbow including the shoulders)  Once this is set at full draw, you need to MAINTAIN that structure for the rest of the shot!!

You will know when you have bone on bone support for the bow weight because you will feel the bones take up the weight -- kind of like the feel of the let off on a compound bow.  When that happens, you will find a significant reduction in the muscle power required.  At the same time your tendency to collapse will be vastly reduced.

So really 2 things to try.  Get that string wrist OUT more, and keep  the bow arm 90 degrees to the spine.  See if that helps."

Arne

[Firstlight]

Randy, what a pleasant surprise to stumble upon you here and see your slo motion video.

I'm working on "form" as well.

I'm glad to see your still shooting!!

We had some fun hunting at the Ca. ranch together!

I have tried moebow's wrist suggestion and have found it to help relax the string hand.  Also his Rotational draw has helped me.

Maybe we'll do that Elk hunt someday!

Paul T from our former club, San Francisco Archers.  I miss that place.

[Wolf Shield]

Yeah Paul. I hope you are enjoying the dual citizenship up north.  Life going well for you and the family? If you can swing it come over to the western states in idaho memorial day weekend.  It would be fun to reunite with you.  Great to hear from you on the site.  I'll be in Sf for some turkey hunting the first weekend of the season, visiting wife's family.  You are always welcome.

NBK, Thank you for your response.  So I am comprehending the collapse as creeping forward with the shot.  That makes sense.  I also have some target panic that I am trying to cure so maybe the collapse is a function of that sub conscience issues.  I do have a tendency to roll the bow arm shoulder in.  Good analysis on the collapse.  It is funny, I told moebow this, but I used the form master on a 68 pound left handed bow, (i have a very hard time pulling) but using the form master from the elbow, I feel like I can hold that left handed bow at full draw all day long.  Bone on bone alignment with the back muscles engaged.  I don't know if I have ever felt that feeling when I have the fingers on the string. Thanks for your suggestions mike.  I appreciate your time to help guys like me.

Moebow, again thank you for your help.

Randy