added an inch to my draw length..

[Diamond Paul]

I think what Arne is saying, and you can see it on Terry Green's canting vids, is that once proper form is established in a controlled environment (the range) it can be applied to any convoluted situation you might encounter in the woods.  Although Terry's body positions are certainly not orthodox, the relationship between his anchor, bow hand, and string hand/elbow are the same in all those positions, and his draw length doesn't change.

[DaveT1963]

Yes I got that DP - and I agree with a lot of what he says. He has actually helped me wiht my shooting form time to time.  

What I am saying is that yes that is the ideal state - that you always maintain that "proper alignment" at all times under all conditions....

but IMHO, under hunting conditions that is not always the case.  Even Bryan Ferguson talks about short drawing in hunting conditions.

[Bobaru]

Daniel, if it were me, I'd listen to Arne.  He's forgotten more than I've ever learned about shooting.

As for clothing, remember that keeping one part of your body warm, will help with others.  Also remember that your head and neck will loose lots of heat if not properly clothed.  This is what I do:  head & neck properly clothed; overdo my legs and chest (vests and long sleeve shirts with sleeves cut down); leaving my arms less bulky.

[Diamond Paul]

I can't imagine short drawing on purpose, but I suppose it could happen if you were squeezed into a weird enough postition, perhaps with a tree behind you that wouldn't let you get all the way back.

[hickstick]

Originally posted by Diamond Paul:
I think what Arne is saying, and you can see it on Terry Green's canting vids, is that once proper form is established in a controlled environment (the range) it can be applied to any convoluted situation you might encounter in the woods.  Although Terry's body positions are certainly not orthodox, the relationship between his anchor, bow hand, and string hand/elbow are the same in all those positions, and his draw length doesn't change.

yup.   doesn't matter if you are laying on your belly, laying on your back, twisting to shoot behind your tree....your alignment, drawlength, anchor ie form should not change.

[moebow]

I'll add one more thing.  When you hunt, don't most of you wait for the quarry to "present" for a shot?  That is broadside, quartering away, etc.  I think most would say they do.  Why then would we  not wait for a shot that we can do with practiced form or alignment?

Yes, I too have been caught "unready" but when that happens, it is no different to me whether I can't shoot because the target isn't right OR I can't do it right.  I for one would not compromise my execution anymore than I would try a "Texas heart shot."  Just say'n.

Arne

[trubltrubl]

I am no expert ...but I get critters.....if your draw length is already adequate why worry about extending it ?????
I would say accuracy is the most important aspect and end result....if you have the kinetic energy already to shoot 3d or take game...why worry about  draw length...consistent form regardless of style would be most important....
just my 2 cents worth...I draw 26" and use bows anywhere from 50 to 65 pounds and they all take game ...
interestingly I was shooting poorly at 3d this summer but come fall I was all good and hitting where I was looking....didn't change anything...just got confident again and seemed to concentrate better...
sometimes I think we all "over think " our form and why we miss.....
practice and confidence are my key to success...I don't put much thought into my mechanics as long as I am making the shot...
I guess if your draw length is not long enough to get the kinetic energy you need to do the task at hand then change your form but if you are already accurate and getting adequate poundage...why change >>

[trubltrubl]

after reading your thread again you pulled  30.5" ..well whatever your draw length was before it certainly would have been at minimum 28 inches ..the standard for most draw length...so just find out what is comfortable with accuracy being the end result...as everyone is saying here...consistent form...and if you hunt.... as said..... practice different positions ( kneeling, twisted . bent over on the stand etc)  and with the clothing you will be wearing on the hunt...

[Diamond Paul]

I don't think you should try to increase your draw length just because you think you should, or because you think you need more energy for some reason.  However, if you are drawing less than you should because of some problem with your basic form, such as dipping your head to the string rather than bringing the string to your head, that's another matter.  I think trying to get longer just for the sake of getting longer can create problems of its own; it did for me, as I literally overdrew the bow and had no room left to expand, so all I could do was creep, which I did, consistently.

[DaveT1963]

Lots of "misaligned" assertions on this thread.
 

I suppose the part that I had practiced taking that very shot many times was missed?  Hardly "compromising my execution."  I fully expected to, and did, kill those deer exactly as I had practiced it many times.   Broadside at 15 yards is not really a compromise nor is it a "Texas heart shot"

I've learned a lot recently;  I really am not shooting "instinctively" like I thought I have been for 30 years, and now I must always have perfect alignment/form or I am compromising my shot execution and somehow just not being very ethical – doesn't matter if I have practiced long hours to become profficeint at it, if my alignment is wrong I am wrong…………

damn trad archery was once simple and fun without so many absolute rules.

[Diamond Paul]

You don't have to have proper alignment and/or form; you aren't required to shoot in any way that you don't care to, nor does it make you unethical if you choose to do that.  However, lots of guys have discovered that many of the things they were doing when they took up traditional bows are not necessarily the best way to do them if they want to hit anything consistently.  Shooting a bow is shooting a bow, and basic form doesn't vary depending on the type of bow you are shooting if you want to be good at it.

[Diamond Paul]

Your definition of "good" and mine may differ quite a bit, though.

[moebow]

Dave,

I don't think that anyone (especially me) is saying you need "perfect alignment/form"  whatever that might be.  Yes, I saw that you practiced different situations and that is good!!  You are consistent with what you do and that is fine.  We all know there are NO absolute rules.  Please don't take it as that.

Basically, I'm trying to suggest that what a person does in practice is what you should do in hunting and not try for an "off the cuff" shot.  I do not think that is what you do at all, from what I read in your posts.

Arne

[DaveT1963]

No worries Arne I have always respected your views and videos.   Like I said in the beginning I wish I had have had a good teacher when I began as I had to unlearn a lot of bad habits.

Get a solid foundation to start. ... then practice as you play. .... think we all agree on that.

[DanielB89]

Originally posted by Diamond Paul:
I don't think you should try to increase your draw length just because you think you should, or because you think you need more energy for some reason.  However, if you are drawing less than you should because of some problem with your basic form, such as dipping your head to the string rather than bringing the string to your head, that's another matter.  I think trying to get longer just for the sake of getting longer can create problems of its own; it did for me, as I literally overdrew the bow and had no room left to expand, so all I could do was creep, which I did, consistently.

Paul,

my draw length is plenty long enough for me.  I just noticed a flaw in my form and am working on fixing it!  But an 1 of draw is another #2-3 and that means more speed, which is never bad in my book.  

[mgf]

I find that I just can't shot very well if my shoulder alignment isn't "right" Maybe some people can.

I had a stark reminder of this just the other day. I've been shooting really well. Then after a few days off because of really nasty weather and getting a new jacket I finally got out to do some shooting.

I could hit anything...well I'd get lucky with a couple of arrows here and there. I mean we're talking about some fliers. I was having fits trying to figure it out. It was like everything I had learned over the last couple of years of VERY hard work had just left me.

Then it came to me...the jacket. I forced myself to pay attention to alignment through the jacket and started clacking shafts together again.

If I'm hunting and can't get lined up "right", for whatever reason, I just don't shoot.