Spine forgiveness

[AlanD]

A question on spine. I was watching Arne’s (moebow) video on grouping. Arne made the comment that even if the spine is wrong, if your form is correct you should still be able to shoot groups. Maybe a little left or right but still groups. That makes a lot of sense to me. But my question is will a properly matched bow and arrow be more forgiving if you slip on your form? I can tell my form is getting better by the majority of my results. However I also know that I’m quite over spined. (I bought a second set of limbs that came in about 10 lbs weaker). I do have plenty of improvement ahead of me in the form department for sure, I’m just curious about forgiveness of form oop’s.

[moebow]

Alan,

Here is how I look at it.  IF, you have good, repeatable form, then you will have good (tight) groups (somewhere and regardless of equipment -- within reason).  Once you have that, a good tune will help with those groups being in the middle (bull's eye).

I do not understand the common "forgiveness" question.  If you shoot a poor shot, you should "forgive yourself" and press on with the next shot.  IMO no equipment set up or configuration can "forgive YOU" only you can do that.

IF you make a well executed shot WITH tuned equipment, no forgiveness will be necessary!! IF you screw up a shot, the equipment OR tuning CANNOT forgive you -- only YOU can do that.

There is no magic wand that can be waved to fix a poor shot.

"forgiveness of form oop’s"  No such thing, IMO.

Arne

[AlanD]

I see your point.
Thank you

[McDave]

Equipment may react differently to form errors.  Howard Hill's famous remark that he didn't shoot a recurve because he didn't think he was skillful enough to shoot a recurve is a case in point.  (I wouldn't take that as a slam on modern recurves; things have changed a lot since Howard was shooting them).  My friends have told me essentially the same thing. They have noticed that when I'm shooting my Dakota recurve when I'm "on" I shoot it better than any other bow I have.  When I'm "off" the arrows go all over the place.  When I'm shooting my Toelke Lynx longbow, my "on" is not quite as on as my Dakota, but my "offs" aren't quite so skattered, either.

Since well tuned arrows wobble less in flight and have less contact with the riser, I would assume they would group tighter than equally well shot untuned arrows.  I haven't tested this, however.  They sure look prettier headed down range than an arrow wobbling all over the place.

[AlanD]

Thank you Dave for your thought.
What brought about my question is that the bow that I referred to with new limbs is a Tomahawk Legacy. Originally at my draw 31" it was at 57 lbs, I bought new limbs and now it is 47 lbs at 31". In my original tune I was shooting Carbon Express Heritage 250 full length 125 gr pt. Shooting the very same arrows I noticed a difference between the two set ups but by canting a smidge more I've brought my shot back in line. But I'm sure its over spinned.

With watching and reading the advice here my form has been improving all the time. But certainly not perfect, I do find a way to oops.

Probably the word "forgiving" wasn't the proper choice. I just wondered, if a particular set up was a bit out of tune and you were able to make it work for the most part, but on the shot that you oops, if on a properly tuned set up you had a similar oops if the properly tuned set up might typically show a better result than the out of tune set  up.

[McDave]

As I said, it makes sense to me that a properly tuned setup would shoot a tighter group when shot with good form.  Whether that also translates into being more forgiving, I'm not as sure.  But a properly tuned arrow surely wouldn't be LESS forgiving, and there are plenty of reasons for wanting to shoot the best tuned arrows you can.

I think a longbow is more forgiving than a recurve because the recurved tips are more sensitive to torqueing the string or bow.  I think a long recurve or longbow is more forgiving than a short recurve or longbow because the more acute string angle on the shorter bows accentuates release errors.  I think a heavy arrow is more forgiving than a light arrow, although that may be offset by the flatter trajectory of a lighter arrow.  I think a grip that is set forward like a Black Widow grip is more forgiving than a straight grip or one that is backset.  That's about all I know about forgiving.