Slouching/collapsing

[fnshtr]

A couple of weeks ago I videoed myself to try to find what my problem was... I was NOT shooting well at all. I found two things: My string arm elbow was high and I was not getting a "crisp" release (some creeping going on).

I immediately corrected the high elbow (it is amazing that I didn't "feel" it). My shooting improved somewhat, but I was still "off".

I have no idea why or how it hit me today, but I realized I was "slouching" (collapsing I guess is the more correct term). That is, I was anchoring as always (thumb joint behind jawbone and middle finger to corner of my mouth), but must have been leaning my head forward somewhat. I didn't catch this on the videos.

When I think EXPAND as I anchor I get a little additional draw length and the release is much improved. A little extra zip on the arrow too.

There seem to be a lot of ups and downs associated with shooting well. It is amazing that with all the videos and advice available... you just have to experience it.

Just thought I would post this... maybe it will help someone else out.

[McDave]

Two things: from watching Arne Moe's videos, I have learned to start my draw with a high elbow, which gets my back muscles involved early, but as I draw the bow, to bring my elbow down to where it is aligned with the arrow at full draw.  That seems to work well for me.

Slouching and collapsing are two different things. Slouching means you droop your head, which means you might shorten your draw length. But if you have good back tension and a crisp release, the shot might not be all that bad, maybe just a little low.  Collapsing means you are losing back tension just before release, which will cause you to hit right if it only happens a little, or way right if it degenerates into a pluck.  If you video yourself in slo mo, it's quite obvious when you collapse, as you sill see your string elbow edge forward just before release.  The cure for this is to really get into your back muscles and make sure you continue to pull all the way through release into follow through.

Interestingly, the cure is the same for a dynamic or dead release, just that your hand goes back farther after a dynamic release.

[tracker12]

Fixing a collapsing release is very difficult.  I did it with my wheel bow and continue to do it with my traditional gear.  It is the one thing I work on when baling in the basement.  During long 3D shoots or long practice session is where it will sometimes raise its ugly head.

[fnshtr]

Thanks McDave for the clarification of terms. What I found amazing was that I didn't "feel" the slouch, and because I concentrated on tightening the back muscles... I did not realize it was happening.

I guess, at least for me, there is a disconnect between what I "feel" and what is actually happening. That "disconnect" makes it more difficult to develop the proper "feeling".

Thanks again... you have helped me understand what is happening.

[McDave]

Yes, I had the same problem with raising my head. Rick Welch pointed it out to me in a recent class.  Even after he pointed it out, I still couldn't feel myself do it, and still can't feel it directly, although I hope to be able to expand my awareness over time so eventually I can feel it.  I did learn to stop doing it, however, and to recognize by the results when I slip back into doing it, which has eliminated most of my high flyers.

[Sirius Black]

I have a poor habit of leaning back slightly as I draw (a carry over from my compound days)that causes me to shoot a little high sometimes. Unless I focus on it, I don't realize that I do it.

[smokin joe]

I think of the "slouching" you mention as bringing my head toward the anchor to meet my string hand -- instead of bringing the string hand all the way to the anchor.

Is this a correct interpretation?

[fnshtr]

Originally posted by smokin joe:
I think of the "slouching" you mention as bringing my head toward the anchor to meet my string hand -- instead of bringing the string hand all the way to the anchor.

Is this a correct interpretation?

Yes. I called it slouching... then added collapsing as I was not sure about the correct term. What I was doing was reaching anchor and I thought I was using the back muscles, but I wasn't "fully expanded" through the shoulders... PLUS I was bringing my head forward a bit.