a question for Arne Moe

[Green]

Food for thought on those who don't experience TP once switching sides...and I've known several.  The fact that aiming is no longer being done with the dominant eye means that as your bow comes up and/or the arrow comes back to anchor, you're not automatically "on target" as you would be with your dominant eye.  You absolutely must come to anchor and then aim with a totally different sight picture.

This forces you to remain at anchor while you make the visual "adjustments".

[Dan Jones]

Green:

Interesting contribution. I hadn't thought about that as the reason why I don't experience the panic on the right side. I'm not aware of making "visual adjustments" at full draw, but maybe I am. The left is definitely my dominant eye. At full draw right handed, I'm not looking down the arrow but across it from left to right.

I do think that in my case at least, the panic is ultimately rooted in the eye seeing "on target" and signalling the brain to release the arrow.  If I don't have a target to aim at, I can hold at full draw until I must physically let down.

I have of course wondered if switching sides to escape the panic is only a temporary fix. I believe that your explanation could be interpreted either way on this question - increased experience shooting right-handed could get one on target quicker and then . . . ..  Or the visual difference you describe could be a permanent thing.

What happened to the people you know who switched hands?

Dan Jones

[Green]

Dan.....I know of at least four who've switched sides and never again have had any experience with TP.  Like you, they have to account visually for the angle of the arrow due to the new location of their dominant eye.  This new location forces the archer to aim after achieving full anchor as there's no natural alignment of eye over the arrow, and an angle/distance adjustment must be mentally calculated for each shot.  

I'm merely a 3 year sufferer of TP who has analyzed the physical/mental aspects very seriously, yet avoided switching sides as I'm stubborn and have almost worked through it.  I will say this with respect to a shot sequence and TP.  If you already have TP, a shot sequence is way slower than the "speed of sight".  To work through TP requires a "one step at a time" approach.  The common denominator for people who suffer from the "early release" version of TP is that when the site picture appears correct in their minds eye, they open their fingers.  Again, "open their fingers".  This is not how it's supposed to be done, and is one of the root physical responses that many have to overcome.  This is why I consider a clicker to be the worst thing for TP.....when an archer hears/feels that click....they fling open their fingers and generally pluck the string. Once the clicker is removed from the bow....that archer still has to deal with this reaction to visual cues.

Review Arne's videos.  At anchor he uses back tension to pull his elbow around....NEVER opening his fingers.  It's as if (his own words to me a few years ago) the string slips through the bones.  Same thing Rod Jenkins teaches.  Subconsciously your fingers do relax at a point, but you are not consciously opening them on cue with respect to the sight picture.  You are in effect "running the shot" with total control.

[Captain*Kirk]

Dan, food for thought:
Is the "beat-up, right-handed bow" you are shooting the same draw weight as your left handed bow?
In some cases, I believe the onset of TP can be triggered by repeatedly bringing a bow to full draw that is too heavy. Even though the archer can hold it for a dozen arrows or so, fatigue begins to set in and the mind convinces the body that "it's OK to release" as soon as it perceives you are on-target. If you have not tried it yet, try shooting lefty with a low pound (20-25#) bow and see it you still have the same issues.

[Terry Green]

FWIW....I shoot right and left handed with the same bow.

Also FWIW, I don't know a dang thing about target panic.  Never had it....don't want to know about it....kinda like Barry Wensel's mentality.    

[Dan Jones]

Captain*Kirk:

Thanks for your comment. Unfortunately, I have found that the panic or loss of control persists despite going down as far as 25#. The only difference is that at 25# I can sometimes "catch" the uncontrolled release, resulting in a bad flinch rather than an uncontrolled shot.

Oddly,for me the panic is usually worst when I first start shooting. There have been times when my best control comes after shooting a lot of arrows. ?????

There's no doubt in my mind that my panic is ultimately rooted in being overbowed way back when I first started to shoot.  That and shooting sessions that lasted far too long. If there is one thing I would urge beginners to do it would be to start with a light bow, learn the proper form, and keep the sessions shorter than you might like. With the internet and decent inexpensive "beginner" bows, getting started right is certainly much easier done today than it was in the 1960's.

Terry Green:  What's Barry Wensel's mentality?

[Captain*Kirk]

Dan, there are a lot of courses and coaches that offer TP 'cures', with plenty of testimonies to their effectiveness, but I think you hit the nail on the head. Your TP was probably started by being overbowed once upon a time. One method I've heard being tossed around is to whip together a home-made PVC bow in the 20# range and simply practicing drawing, holding, then letting down with eyes closed, concentrating on the actions as you go through the mental checklist. If you get an uncommanded release and dry fire; no biggie. It's a piece of PVC. The mind is a very complex instrument and 'unlearning' a particular behavior can be extremely difficult. You might find it helpful to seek out a coach to assist you in your case. You might checkout Joel Turner's IronMind system:
 http://www.ironmindhunting.com/
At any rate, do keep us informed as to your progress...

[Dave Nash]

Thanks Arne, the shot sequence has helped me finally start to take control.Tp is tuff but can be controlled by slowing down and shooting fewer arrows. This thread has helped me more than anything else I've tried
Thanks everyone

[highlow]

Don't know if what I have to offer about this topic is timely but will state it anyway. I don't have TP. Nor do I want it, especially after reading the posts here. To my point then. As I come to full draw, which is a tad under 28"s, I actually look at the arrow as it comes back and not the target. After achieving full draw, I then aim. I'm a fixed crawl advocate by the way so I'm using the point. I didn't incorporate this into my shot sequence consciously. It just seemed to happen. For me, this eliminates the premature release as I haven't attempted "target acquisition" yet. Something akin to drawing with eyes closed I guess. Perhaps I'm oversimplifying this problem but maybe this will help some of you trying to overcome this apparently common affliction. Your thoughts and opinions are welcome.

[Cecil]

One thing I have did that realy helps is drawing and going through each step of your sequence and just hold at anchor and watch the sight picture for the count of 3. I count at anchor hold 1 hold 2 hold 3 then let it down. I think this helps to get back to it is okay to just let it sit on target and watch it dance around without shooting.