Arrow spine problems - please help

[mikel ross]

Hey guys,

I've no problem using carbon Victory VForce 500 3050, with 125 gr points, with my recurves, which are 30# and 35#. My DL is about 27 1/2".

I bought a longbow, 57" 37#@28" and attempted to use the same arrows, but they reacted as if they were stiff. It was necessary to increase the point weight to 175 gr, and max out the BH to 6 5/8". This enables the arrow to straighten out, BUT it also increased the bow weight to where I am overbowed to the extent that my form, thus my consistency, is suffering. So, the longbow "weighs" about 40# with the BH at max, which would be midway between the 30-50# spine range of the arrows, so I don't understand why they were shooting stiffly when they had the 125 gr points - explanation??

This too- I want to have a 25 yd point-on, but with the 175 gr tip, even though my nockset is set to only 1/4, my point-on is only 20 yards.

I shoot 3-D and paper targets at no longer than 30 yards, and I shoot 3 under.

So, to sum up - there are two things going on here: Overbowed which affects form, and arrows too heavy to reach preferred point-on.

If I were to purchase lighter arrows (then decrease the brace height for my comfort), I suppose that my point-on would be better, but at what spine?? What weight?

Do longbows usually take lesser spined arrows than equivalent poundage recurves? Is that the nature of longbows?

Please advise with the usual great advice

Thanks!

[moebow]

mikel,

Since no one else has answered, here is my take.  I do not shoot carbon arrows but have to say that a .500/.600 (whatever 3050s are) spine arrow is PROBABLY too stiff for any of your bows.

Next,I do not believe that a 1/4" nocking point is high enough and frankly I also do NOT believe that just changing your nocking point has a very large (if any) effect on your POD.  Most bows like a 3/4" high nocking point for 3 under and around 1/2" for split finger.

I also do not agree that just changing your brace height changes your draw weight to the effect you seem to indicate.  Staying within the bowyer's recommended brace will not affect overall draw weight that much (if at all). It simply changes the BEGINNING location for the force draw curve, not the full draw end.

You do not say what the center cut is for your bows.  Your recurves MAY be center cut which will allow a greater tolerance for spine.  Your "long bow" sounds to be a high reflex/deflex bow (many of which are center cut) but if cut short of center, MAY require weaker spined arrows.  57" is really a short "longbow".  And, yes, long (straight ended) bows generally don't put as much energy into the arrow so a weaker spine is often indicated.

The LARGEST change for POD is the arrow nock location on your face ( how far below your eye the nock is); so are you changing your anchor position some between bows?  FYI, MOST folks find a natural 30-35 yard POD 3 under and 50-60 yards split finger.  Getting the POD down to the 20-25 yard range will take some serious experimentation and many find that is the place to start exploring string walking a little.

Not sure what your experience level is so don't mean to insult, but I do feel you are chasing your tail a little -- trying to "fix" too many things too fast.  Good luck with it all though.

Arne

[mikel ross]

Many thanks, Arne

I sent an email to the bowyer to find out if the riser is center cut or not - it appears to be center
cut, but I may be wrong.

"3050", as I understand it, is the 30-50# range for which the arrows are supposed to be usable.

I have the nock set at 1/4" (not my preference), to maximize the point-on. My recurves have higher nock set points. My recurves are 35# and 30#, and shoot said arrows, with 125 grain points, just fine. The longbow is at least 37#, having maxxed out the BH range.

I shoot 3 under, with middle finger to the corner of my mouth, with the recurves (to put the arrow as directly under my pupil as possible), so I'd like to maintain consistency with the longbow. If, however, I need to shoot the longbow with my index finger at the corner of my mouth, to increase the point-on, instead of the middle finger, I'll do so.

Now that you have more info, have you anything else to suggest?

I appreciate your input.

[McDave]

I'll second everything Arne suggested.  He was a little vague on spine suggestions, but I think you need to try a 600 spine shaft (sometimes also designated as 1535).  Your 500 spine shaft will work with your bow, but only by loading up the point weight, as you have done.  That would be fine if you wanted to hunt with it, but for 3D, you want a light arrow for a flat trajectory.  That would be a 600 spine arrow with perhaps a 75 or 100 grain point.  Leave the shaft full length until you have a chance to shoot it, because leaving the shaft full length will also weaken the spine with only a minor weight increase.

You can adjust POI a little by raising or lowering nock point, but you have blown past the limits.  You need to tune your bow/arrow combination for optimal arrow flight, which means a nock point for 3 under of 1/2" or more.  Same with your brace height; tune it for optimal bow performance, not for any other reason.

I think if you get the right spined arrow, you will achieve your desired point on without having to sacrifice other aspects of your tuning.  You're going to lose much more than you gain by sacrificing good tuning to achieve a desired point on.

Most 3D tournaments that I enter require that one of your fingers touch the nock, if you want to compete in the longbow or recurve class, which limits stringwalkers to the open class, so you want to get a good traditional anchor with a point on somewhere in the ranges you want to shoot.

Also, I don't know how it is in Florida, but in California, the 3D rules frequently require wood arrows for longbows, so you should probably find out about that before you spend a whole lot of time matching a carbon arrow to your longbow.

[mikel ross]

Thanks, McDave, I appreciate your sharing of good knowledge.