Who has had success controling TP without a psychotrigger?

[Etter]

Ive been shooting recurves for 6 years or so. Have been successful in the field the whole time, but have had target panic basically the whole time which I think stems from having zero instruction initially and just snap shooting. I have had ups and downs since learning of joel turners philosophy about 9 months ago but do fall into the trap still somewhat regularly. Especially on game. The thing is I can often go for months shooting very well and then completely fall apart at crunch time and then restart the cycle. I realize that is just the lack of focus that joel teaches about and Ill have to learn to overcome that with experience.

 But I hate the psychotrigger part of his system. I hate pulling through the shot and I learn to anticipate the feather to nose or clicker. Id rather have a dead release and really dont like the idea of a tab or grip sear. Plus, most of my shots in the field require much faster shooting than that process allows.

So does anybody use the mantra alone without a psychotrigger and keep this nightmare at bay. Like I said, it usually works for me and I think I just have to be more disciplined.

[oldrubline]

You may have seen my post here on shooting animals with more of a automatic snap shooting style.  I practice all year long and get my confidence up with the psychotrigger being the only way I can consistently keep TP at bay. However, on game at ground level I can not keep the focus back at the bow shooting form (concentration on the act of pulling to the trigger). Instead, 110% of my focus goes to that spot on the animal I want to hit and the arrow is GONE!  I am still frustrated on the whole thing and wish I could just shoot without the Joel Turner system; but again , its the only way I CAN shoot otherwise!

Dan

[crazynate]

I used to have tp and used to be a snap shooter. You don't have to always shoot that way. If you haven't already pic kip archery insights by j. Kidwell. If you do the drills he says and follow his instruction you can cure your tp. Trust me I had tp worse than anyone and I've read a million articles and talked to a lot of guys over the years. The problem is unless someone has it bad most people dismiss tp as just a mental thing and that's why they don't have a good cure. I highly suggest that book. Also buy a cheap recurve in 30-35 pound range to use as a tool. You can find me under 100 bucks and you will benefit from it tremendously. Joel turner is smart and I've met and listened to him a few times. But his program doesn't work for me at all. I think he complicates it more than it has to be complicated. But it's worked for some. Just not me

[Etter]

I read kidwells book first and I do his exercises regularly. Actually, my target panic definitely builds when I get lazy about doing draw and holds and other such practice. My bows at 57 and 58 lbs are a little heavy for the long holds that joels system seems to require but his advice about never shooting a bad arrow is the KEY to it all for me. I often draw and hold at anchor and kind of shudder when my brain is telling me to release and I always now let the bow down and dont shoot even after regaining control.

[Etter]

There is something else I have always thought about this topic. There are thousands or millions of documents regarding native peoples hunting with bows of all sorts but none of them appear to have target panic. It seems that when the food directly matters to your life, it doesnt exist. I recently saw a video of steve rinella hunting in the amazon with some natives and they shot fish much more successfully and with much less accurate equipment than him while holding for as long as necessary to make accurate shots. So the act of sport shooting/hunting must have some part in this.

[mgf]

I don't know if what I experience is really TP or if it's even comparable to what other people experience...though the result is still a lousy shot.

My "TP" is a case where I either don't know what to do next or just decide not to do it and let the arrow go. It's just throwing the shot away.

The sequence of events of one of my numerous misses on a deer would go something like this...All of a sudden a shot opportunity presents itself. First off, I'm in shock because it's such a rare occurrence. LOL

I pull the string back and realize full well that it feels completely foreign...like it's my first time ever shooting a bow. I know I'm not doing anything at all like what I do on the range or in practice from my stand.

I either don't know how to get from where I am to where I should be...or just don't have any confidence that I can pull it off...so I dump the string and hope for the best.

I never killed a deer that way.

[mgf]

My solution has simply been to execute the shot as closely as I can to the way I would make any other shot.

My exact process and the way I shoot changes over time as I battle various problems and try to improve. Still, on my worst day of practice, I shoot well enough to kill deer like crazy at 15 yards.

My deer killing problems haven't been because my shooting isn't good enough. It's been because I didn't shoot like I shoot when there's a deer around.

I finally broke a long slump of misses a few weeks ago. The opportunity happened fast and as a complete surprise as they often do. I drew and realized I was about to do the very same thing again.

I actually let down. The buck was chasing some does and there was a good chance he wasn't going to stay in that little hole in the trees while I messed around. Still, I knew I would just miss anyway if I didn't do something different.

I drew again and kept my mind on shooting the bow the way I shoot a bow. I don't think it felt exactly as it would in practice but it seemed close enough.

My shot was a few inches left of where I was aiming. That can happen to me on the range too.

The result was a deer in the freezer because my "miss" was a few inches instead of a few feet. LOL

For me the key is to keep my mind on what I need to be doing at the moment.

I don't think that's much different than what Joel Turner says, is it? My understanding of the "psycho-trigger" is that it's a tool to help you do that.

[Etter]

The mantra is more what youre talking about. Breaking the shot down into several steps. The psychotrigger is something like a clicker or the feather pulling into your nose, etc. it involves a slow pulling until the trigger goes off which triggers the release.

[McDave]

I understand what you said in your first post about anticipating the psychotrigger.  I started doing that too, and it basically caused me to have a conscious release, which sort of defeats the whole purpose of a psychotrigger.  So I retrained myself to have a surprise release without using a psychotrigger.  A psychotrigger is fine, but most of the world's great archers, past and present, didn't or don't use one.

As far as native archers are concerned, I think the ones we hear about or see on videos are the successful  ones.  There might be unsuccessful ones that have target panic or any of the other usual reasons for being an unsuccessful hunter, but we don't hear about those.  As they say in the old joke: "What do they call an unsuccessful hunter?  A vegetarian."

[ChuckC]

I switched to left handed shooting.  It took a little bit to get over awkwardness and a little longer to develop another shooting style. I do not have TP left handed.  I work very hard to maintain a slower, more methodical shooting sequence than I had right handed.  No more quick shots for this guy.  I got only so many hands to switch....


Tell you what.   I love shooting again.
Can't tell you haow many dissapointments I suffered when after time and effort come to fruition the shot not just missed but totally sucked.

 I fought the change and it took missing two nice animals back to back....a beautiful bull elk that I spotted and stalked ( he was sleeping and I got quite close before I blew the shot), and a big doe that did exactly as I planned and stopped in my marsh shooting lane, head behind grass, when I shot two feet over her, to force the issue.  Wish I didn't wait.
CHuckC

[Etter]

Chuck, thats exactly what fred bear did and he developed target panic on his left as well.

[dnovo]

I suffered from TP for years. I was ok in my yard but put an animal or scoring target in front of me and who knew? I was shooting too much weight then which contributed to it. When I decided enough was enough, I just became stubborn. I went out and FORCED myself to hold at anchor when I drew for a shot. The first few times of that there were a few arrows that weren't supposed to be shot and were. I gradually became able to draw and anchor and make a controlled shot. I've been doing well for probably 10 years or more now. I do believe TP is like alcoholism in that it can be controlled but never truly beaten.

[katman]

Another recommendation for Jay Kidwells book Instinctive Archery Insights.

Comming on target and off then on etc on the same draw was very helpful as well as no shoot draw.