Bow arm - Push or Hold?

[YosemiteSam]

I've been noticing some slight string slap that is causing my arrows to veer nock right upon release.  My elbow is always turned out so this is not the issue.  Partly, this is due to some overly stiff arrows (in process of correcting that).  But I tried pushing my bow arm out toward the target until the clicker went off & noticed that my shots went A LOT straighter.  At 25 yards, 2 bareshafts and 4 fletched were in a 6-8" circle (good for me).  I wanted to see if I could repeat that sequence but the rain picked up so I headed in.  

I've always heard that my bow arm should be rock-solid and I should use my string hand to pull through the release.  But whenever I do that, I get a gentle string tap on my bow arm.  Maybe I'm plucking my release?  Does anybody recommend pushing toward the target for a more consistent follow-through?  Or am I just likely to get different errors?

[McDave]

I think it must be a matter of semantics.  In the broadest sense, anyone who successfully fires an arrow must push or their bow arm would collapse.  Beyond that, you get different opinions.  

Fred Asbell evidently thinks pushing with the bow arm is right up there at the top of things to do.  In his book, he states that whenever his arrows begin to spread out on the target, the first thing he does is check to make sure he's pushing with his bow arm, and many times that solves the problem.  

Arne Moe says don't push, just keep a solid bow arm.  

Jim Ploen says the difference between a good archer and a great archer is how well they balance pulling with the string arm with pushing with the bow arm.  Again, it must be a matter of feel, because under the laws of physics, I'm pretty sure the force against anyone's bow hand has to be the same as the force against his string hand, or the bow itself would move in the direction of the greater force.  OTOH, I know how great an archer Jim Ploen was, and other expert archers have made a similar comment to me, so I'm sure they're trying to express something important, regardless of the laws of physics.

Obviously, you don't want your bow arm to collapse and push your bow arm shoulder up toward your neck. Nor do you want to hyperextend your bow arm shoulder and injure yourself.  Somewhere in between must be a sweet spot, and it probably feels like pushing.

[longbow fanatic 1]

In my opinion, you are absolutely correct. Many archers, esp. some Oly archers, will push their bow arm down and toward the target while at the same time pulling with their string hand/arm (with back tension) through the clicker.

I should also say that I choose to shoot with a solid bow arm (not pushing toward the target). It's whatever works for you.

[forestdweller]

Funny you mention this because I experimented with this very briefly today and have played with it in the past as well.

My opinion is that a solid bowarm that does not move is the best (at least for me).

If I move the bow arm forward my shot tend's to move slightly left.

If you put your arm in front of you and imagine yourself holding a bow and slowly push the bow arm forward your bowarm will naturally move to the left as well.

I like keeping everything as still as possible personally, less movement during the release = greater accuracy.

[Bowwild]

Highly agree with McDave's first sentence. If the bow arm muscles are active and the bow hand pushing towards the target, the bow arm will jump towards the target and fall down to the side during follow-through. The arrow will be long gone before this bow arm movement occurs.

To try to keep the bow arm unmoved until the arrow strikes the target is like stopping the baseball bat as it strikes the ball. To do it you have to mess up your swing before you strike the ball. Same with archery.

Keep the bow arm straight but unlocked.

[mgf]

I haven't been shooting much because of the weather.

When I started yesterday my arrows were flying a little weak (tail left). I tried everything...push with the bow arm, pull with the string side and so on. Once in a while something would seem to work once or twice.

What it took was to get drawn so that I really feel like it's "bone on bone" or that I am "inside the force of the bow".

When I get it right I don't feel like I'm pushing or pulling. I just feel like I'm being pressed on by the bow from bow hand to string elbow. Anytime I feel like I'm holding the bow  with muscle, things go poorly.

From there I thinks describing how you initiate expansion or release is largely semantics. I just think about feeling that "compression" a little more and about the follow through position I want to end up in.

I've taken to actually touching my string shoulder with my string hand after the release. It's an artificial part of the follow through but I think it helps keep me from relaxing too soon and to keep the tension at release more consistent from shot to shot. If you end up in the same place every time there's a good chance you took the same path to get there.

I think of pushing with the bow arm/shoulder as an attempt to get lined up better. I guess I do that on both sides but it's before I even start aiming.

[Sirius Black]

I agree with Forestdweller. For me, if I push forward, my bow arm moves slightly left, but also up. I'll shoot to the left and high on the target. I've taken lessons from Arne, and enjoy shooting the way he does, but over the last year I've been pushing that bow arm forward-    I'm working now to correct that.

[slowbowjoe]

I seem to do the best in the middle... as in McDave's mention of Jim Ploen's advice. Bow arm is solid, but "bent" enough to provide both solidity and tension. A bit harder to repeat consistently, but more reliable tha a "locked" arm or a shortened draw.

[Terry Green]

You don't really need to 'Hold'. You should keep pulling, or creeping BACKWARDS. Rod Jenkins once said he and I shoot exactly the same....just that I do it faster.

My bow are is LOCKED...but my drawing arm never stops pulling.  It might work better for you if your bow arm is kept slightly bent.

Your anchor is not a destination, but an evolution to execution.

[F Thomas]

I'm getting back into shooting after a three year absence and am working to prepare the mental game even before my new bow arrives.  So the above discussion is very interesting.  Thinking about training aides and material.

There is a training aid sold at 3Rivers called "The Shot Trainer".  Is it worth the $59.99?  

Also, there is Michael Linsin, who published a DVD called "The Push Release", which the above discussion reminds me of.  

I am open to recommendations on training material since I am currently residing overseas.

[McDave]

Don't confuse pushing with the bow arm, for the purpose of stabilizing the bow arm, with the push release, which I think is done with the string hand for the purpose of triggering the release.  I remember watching the video about the push release when it came out, and trying it, but deciding that it wasn't for me.  Haven't really heard anything more about it on this forum since then until your post, so maybe it wasn't something many others decided to use either.  I'm a junkie for every new idea that comes out about ways to shoot the bow better, at  least the ones that are discussed on this forum.  I generally give all of them at least a try.  

If you want to read about or see some that really work, pay attention to Arne Moe's posts here and YouTube videos, Jimmy Blackmon's YouTube videos, and the DVD set, Masters of the Bare Bow featuring Rod Jenkins and others.  Rick Welch is my mentor, but doesn't write much on the internet; you mainly have to sign up for one of his classes.

The Shot Trainer seems to be a version of the Formaster, which I am familiar with.  Whether it is an improved version or not, I couldn't say.  The Formaster is a great tool for discovering how to use back tension, which is somewhat elusive to feel and absolutely essential for good shooting.  The Formaster is demonstrated by Rod Jenkins in Vol 3 of the Masters of the Bare Bow DVD.

[F Thomas]

McDave, thanks for your response.  There is no confusion on my part with regards to pushing the bow and "The Push Release".  

I will keep my eye out for all those you mentioned.  I'll have to purchase the Master of the Bare Bow series.

Would love to be able to take a class, but I'm currently living overseas.  Something I should plan for my next time back in the States!

[forestdweller]

Those shot trainers are way over priced in my opinion but YMMV.