Anyone else can't shoot paper well?

[KeganM]

We all need to find what works best for us. Comparing ourselves to others is tricky when successful archers come in so many varieties. Jason Westbrock recently wrote a great article about that in a recent TBM.

There are too many archers throughout the world, past and present, who have been able to do well on a variety of targets (paper, straw, dirt, or flesh) to say that one discipline is separate from another. The only differences are made up in our heads. We overthink too much.

It also helps to have realistic goals. Obviously a selfbow won't be as easy as a sighted ILF, but the skill of the archer should be able to get the most out of any weapon they choose.

[forestdweller]

I know this is off topic a little but since Kegan brought up selfbows I'd really like to see a selfbow NFAA and Vegas round that is shot off the hand using selfbows and wooden arrows.

It seems like it would be very fun to compete in and watch, yet still competitive enough to foster together competitive scores and competition.

[KeganM]

I don't remember which one he shoots the full round, but here's one of Jimmy Blackmon explaining a bit about his selfbow (he shoots paper, foam, and deer with it at 40# or so).

[KeganM]

Forgot the link:  

[McDave]

That's impressive shooting, as it always is with Jimmy Blackmon.  I think it would be great to have a Las Vegas round with selfbows, if you could get enough people to participate.  I've never been there, but one of my friends went a few years back.  At that time, maybe still, there was no trad division at all.  He had to shoot against people using Olympic style bows with all the gadgets.

I think participation and sponsor interest is really the problem.  It costs money to rent the space, set up the targets, keep the scores, etc.  If sponsors don't feel like they will get much mileage out of it, then they won't spend their money on it.  Sort of like men's vs women's sports.  Not fair, but that's life.

I went to a tournament two weeks ago in a beautiful location that was lightly attended because the original date had been rained out.  Probably not everyone got the word on the new date or else had already made other plans.  Felt sorry for the club that sponsored the event, but it was great for the shooters.  Ordinarily, by the middle of the tournament, shooters would have been backed up 2-3 groups at each target, which makes for quite a bit of time wasted.  We never waited at any target all day.  There was only one other trad shooter there, who I hadn't met before, and we ended up shooting with a family of compound shooters.  Had a great time.

They had a clout shoot, a big elk at an unknown distance of about 90 yards or so.  The compounders all bought tickets and mainly all hit the elk with most of their shots.  The other trad guy and I agreed that it was too bad they didn't have a trad clout at a little closer distance. Then we both realized at the same time that for the trouble of setting up another animal and keeping track of who was closest to the pin, they would have collected an extra $2-$4, depending on whether we decided to shoot one or two rounds, which they would have split with us!   Hardly worth the trouble for them to do it.

Of course, if someone like Jimmy Blackmon did go to Las Vegas and won the bare bow division with a trad bow, that would make the news and I'm sure the sponsors would be happy.  But that would be unlikely, even for Jimmy.  I understand that it is rare for any of the top competitors to miss the 20 yard bullseye, and as good as Jimmy is, as demonstrated with his skill with the self bow, I'm not sure he is up to shooting 30 bullseyes into a silver dollar sized bullseye in a row, even with his regular trad bow.

[KeganM]

Originally posted by forestdweller:
It seems like it would be very fun to compete in and watch, yet still competitive enough to foster together competitive scores and competition.

That's where classes come in to formal competitions. Selfbows guys don't have to compete against sighted ILF guys because the scores will be so different. Get a bunch of guys shooting the same bow though and you have some good-natured competition, though.

Competing is only a bad thing if you make it into something bad.

[forestdweller]

I agree Kegan especially about your last point in regards to competing.

Maybe someone could create a "hunter" round in which the time limit is cut down significantly so that one can not get away with holding 5+ seconds during each shot.

It would be interesting for sure!

[KeganM]

Folks used to do that a lot. Added another degree of challenge to it to keep things interesting. However I don't know of many shooting single string who hold that long. It may take a different skill set to shoot quickly but it takes a lot of muscular endurance to hold for long periods on every shot.

[forestdweller]

I know John Demmer and other guys that are shooting high barebow scores typically hold between 4-6 seconds at full draw.

[KeganM]

I've shot with Demmer and he does hold a little longer than most, but he's mentioned he only holds as long as he needs to. Even Rick Welch teaches his students to hold and many say it helps.  

Holding is just what some of us need to do to be accurate. If anything, holding is harder. It tires you out and having to do it on every shot is a pain. It's slower, obviously. But I've killed way more critters holding than I ever did snapping. In the woods you just do what you need to to make a good, clean, ethical shot.

I think if most of us holders COULD shoot well quickly, we would. I know I would!