Shot Timing

[BWallace10327]

I am curious of those who are able to draw, hold for a few seconds and shoot.  What are you doing all that time? Setting a gap? Really REALLY concentrating?  I don't understand it, and more importantly, I am unable to shoot that way.  If I am able to hold for a few seconds, I am so distracted by the effort of doing so I can't hit beans.  Not just any beans, but beans plastered all over the side of a barn.  
  Likewise, are you archers that can control your shot and hold for a while before releasing able to (snap*) shoot quickly just as well?  I'd appreciate any response as I am baffled to some extent.

[forestdweller]

Funny that you made this topic. I typically hold a little over 1 second at full anchor before releasing.

During the time at full anchor I usually am settling in my anchor and reference points and making sure my sight picture feels right and that everything physical feels right.

I'm trying to align my arrow up left and right for alignment and am not concerned with the elevation since I shoot instinctive and am a feel based shooter.

I am able to snap shoot as well but am only confident snap shooting within 15 paces.

That being said I am in the process of fletching up some more arrows and am going to give snap shooting an honest try.

I feel as though if one can have a fluid shot process without any conscious thought than there is less that can go wrong during the shot process especially in high pressure situations.

I feel as though snap shooting, or what I would rather call "fluid shooting" is superior to holding at full draw but requires more work to get to the point where you are shooting like some of the legends like Hill.

With holding at full draw you are burning a hole in your target at full draw but you can creep and get stuck at full draw and end up with a crappy release or even flinching.

With "fluid shooting" you do everything in one smooth motion just as if swinging a golf club or throwing a ball and there's no possibility of creeping or getting stuck and you minimize the potential for flinching and target panic or at least this has been my experience.

One thing that's also not mentioned much is that you can use a heavier bow if with your shooting style you do not hold at full draw. My 50# bow starts to feel like a 40# bow when doing everything in one smooth continuous motion.

I was just watching a video this morning of a Swedish barebow archer that was string walking yet snap shooting (no pause at full draw) and was doing very well so I'm of the opinion that it's a viable method for all forms of archery but requires much more skill to pull off vs the hold and release method since everything happens much faster.

[Sam McMichael]

I hold for a second or so. I don't set a gap, but I do reference my point to be sure it is pointing in the same plane I am looking as my natural alignment is a bit to the right of my line of sight. Then I concentrate on the target in what I think is a sort of split vision arrangement (the point is in the peripheral vision but not used as a pointer). The downside is that if my alignment is too far off, I spend excessive time trying to rectify it and lose concentration.

[McDave]

Most people I know learned using the snap shooting method, as I did.  I was introduced to the 2 sec hold when I went to Rick Welch's class.  Rick believes a 2 sec hold is beneficial in order to stabilize yourself.  The system he teaches is not gap, so there is no actual work or thinking to do during the 2 sec hold.  In fact, any work or cognitive thinking during the 2 sec hold would be destructive to the shot.  As a result, 2 sec seems like 2 min at first.  It takes effort to learn to hold for 2 sec doing essentially....nothing.  Obviously, the only reason for doing it is because it makes you more accurate.  If it doesn't make you more accurate, then don't do it!

(I'm reminded of something either Mark Twain or Will Rogers said about investing: "What you want to do is to buy a stock when it's low and sell it when it's high.  If it doesn't go up, then don't buy it.")

I find it difficult to snap shoot when I am used to holding.  Evidently, Rick Welch does too.  I asked him one time how he deals with the speed shooting events at trad tournaments.  He said he just holds and shoots and hopes to make up the points somewhere down the line.  Of course, in the trad world championship, there is no speed shooting event.

[BWallace10327]

McDave, I can clearly see how such a 2 second hold would make a more consistent shooter and how it would become difficult to snap shoot after the hold is the norm.  I feel that it would be a beneficial method to learn for 97% of the shots that most archers, especially myself take, maybe more.

[longbow fanatic 1]

My shot process usually takes about five or six seconds to go off. Fast forwarding my process to the point that I draw the bow, here is what I'm doing. Once the string is back, I settle on my anchor. Then I make sure my rhomboid muscle is engaged. The next thing I do is check my string blur ( line my string up with a point on my bow riser). Then I begin aiming carefully while I keep rhomboid engaged and pulling until the shot goes off.

As to your second question, I can shoot faster if necessary so long as I'm not too far from the target (10-15 yards), but I can't snap shoot accurately.

[BWallace10327]

Forrest Dweller; I might suggest that you don't try to become a snap shooter.  Many people, including myself, learned this way without any other teaching. I started shooting a little recurve this way when I was just 8 or 9.  I don't know a ton of people who have gone through the trouble I have and still shoot traditional; maybe I'm just dense.  

I am confident in hitting a shotgun shell under 20 yards pretty regularly, and when I miss it isn't by far. At that distance, moving game is in serious danger. As distance increases, however, my arrows can become erratic.  One day I can hit a 6" bull at 40 or 50 yards easily and regularly and the mystery of WHY is great.  On the other hand, some days I shoot at the same target at 20 or 25 yards and miss frequently.  The mystery is not so great then.  A fast, fluid shot sequence is hard to correct in the midst of a 3d or indoor shoot when everything goes wrong for no apparent reason.

Snap shooting is effective, but it is hard and time consuming. Some people (not me) a great shots doing so and it comes easily. I shoot this way because I don't believe I can change, so I suggest you do what I do; enjoy how you shoot and accept the limitations of the style you choose.

[forestdweller]

Originally posted by BWallace10327:
Forrest Dweller; I might suggest that you don't try to become a snap shooter.  Many people, including myself, learned this way without any other teaching. I started shooting a little recurve this way when I was just 8 or 9.  I don't know a ton of people who have gone through the trouble I have and still shoot traditional; maybe I'm just dense.  

I am confident in hitting a shotgun shell under 20 yards pretty regularly, and when I miss it isn't by far. At that distance, moving game is in serious danger. As distance increases, however, my arrows can become erratic.  One day I can hit a 6" bull at 40 or 50 yards easily and regularly and the mystery of WHY is great.  On the other hand, some days I shoot at the same target at 20 or 25 yards and miss frequently.  The mystery is not so great then.  A fast, fluid shot sequence is hard to correct in the midst of a 3d or indoor shoot when everything goes wrong for no apparent reason.

Snap shooting is effective, but it is hard and time consuming. Some people (not me) a great shots doing so and it comes easily. I shoot this way because I don't believe I can change, so I suggest you do what I do; enjoy how you shoot and accept the limitations of the style you choose.

I agree with you BW, I went out today and gave snap shooting an honest try and it is terrible for me in regards to accuracy.

For one, when snap shooting you can only really have 1 anchor whereas when I hold I have an anchor and 2 reference points. If I hold for a second at full draw that gives me enough time to "lock onto" my target, hit my anchor and both reference points, and hit an accurate shot. It's not that much slower than a snap shot either. About a second and a half at full draw is all I need within about 40 paces.

I just need to give this shooting paper kick I was on a rest and go back to the old targets that I shot.

Shooting a NFAA 300 5 spot with a longbow if you are an instinctive archer is a big no no in my book now.

[BWallace10327]

I don't claim to be an instinctive shooter, it's more like shooting a clay pigeon coming out of a trap house with a shotgun to me.  The barrel is there, much like my arrow and I can see it clearly, but I don't make adjustments, point and shoot quickly.  A bad habit that is hard to break, but with enough practice it can be effective in it's own right.  

I have 2 anchors that I hit most of the time; my bottom thumb joint slides across my right cheek touching tembomandibular joint and index finger on right upper canine tooth, but that is an ideal situation.

[KeganM]

At full draw I focus on squeezing my back and keeping as much tension out of my arms and hands as possible. I use Joel Turner's mantra and feather-to-the-nose techniques. More often than not if I don't I'll flinch in anticipation of the shot which degrades into full target panic after a day or so.

I can shoot that way more quickly, but obviously not with the same precision. I can also snap shoot but I've never been able to do it well.

[DKdc]

I am very slowly expanding and waiting for my feather to touch my nose. I don't really aim. Matter of fact the more I concentrate on the worse I get. I just focus on using the appropriate muscles to expand and when the feather touches my nose I simply pull through and relax my hand

[Draven]

Frankly I have no idea what I am doing in that time (1 sec or max 2), I just look at the arrow in the target after. And I like to keep it this way as many times as possible because every time I start to think "pull", "breath out" etc I want my shot back.