New guy.....old shooter...

[rutro]

I've got to say "what a great board" So much good info and good people to go with it. I learned to shoot with one of those old Ben Pearson fiberglass bows. Now many, many moons later I have a Pearson Cougar that I restored. Just 30# pull, but with the wrecked neck I'm lucky I can pull it. I've been learning more than I ever thought possible about shooting since I found this board. So......first question.
 What causes the nock end of the arrow to jump up and the arrow to dive down just before hitting the bag? I've been shooting some carbon fiber arrows and they are so lite???? I read about moving the nock up or down the string. I have it close now but ever once and a while I do it again. I thought it was my fingers putting different pressure on the string. I have been shooting split with a deep  hold on the string, in the first finger joint.
 So today I decided to try a three under... That's when it started all over again. I really like the three under as it gets the arrow up under my eye so I can see down the shaft. But that little thing the arrow does is driving me out of my frazzling mind. I forgot to mention, I'm shooting at 10 and 20 yards mostly, and sometimes 30.

[Jock Whisky]

Could be several things.

Are you shooting off the shelf or using an elevated rest? If you are off the shelf then you should be using feathers instead of plastic vanes. (It is apparently possible to use plastic vanes off the shelf but thats for another day.)

How high do you have your nocking point set?

Tell us a little bit about your bow and the arrows you are using.

[rutro]

Thanks so much for the reply Jock. I've been shooting off the shelf. Wondered about those plastic vanes. So that's why my wood arrows don't do this acrobatic display.
  The bow is a Ben Pearson Cougar 962-64" 30#@28". Picked it up on the **** for $50 and some change. After I sanded the old finish and shot it with some spar varnish it looks like new.
  These carbon fiber arrows are Gold Tip 28" splined 30-35#. Just the cheapest Walmart had. I started shooting my Dads old stick bow with his wood arrows but it was only a 20# pull. So naturally I wanted something more. Got the Cougar and found out 30# is probably all I'll ever be able to pull with my trick neck.
  The nock is set at 1/4" above shelf now. The wood arrows were shooting great at 1/2" above. I think I'll go back to those for a while. Now that I've shot enough to be able to hold a full draw steady with this bow. I got the carbon arrows after I shattered a couple of the wood hitting the back stop instead of the bag.
  I've always had good luck shooting instinctive. Played a lot of pool growing up and it helped me see the angles and where the arrow was going. But as I've got older the eyes are not the same so shooting the gap has been a revelation. Since I'm retired I can get out and shoot almost everyday. Keeps me out of trouble.... usually.
  Something I found for my tender old hands I might pass along. Getting used to the string again was hard. Sore fingers, use a glove some but not the same feel. A product I got for my jack russel's feet has helped. It's called "Tuf-Foot" made by the Bonaseptic Co. for toughening up the pads of field dogs. Also works for people. Guitar players use it. Now the only time I use the glove is when it gets cold.

[McDave]

If the nock point is too low, then the arrow will bounce.  If you’re nocking the arrow under the string nock, then 1/4” is too low.  Many people place their nock point 1/2” above square, some 5/8”.  Quite often 3 under shooters have to place it even higher, at 3/4” or more to get good arrow flight.

Some people nock the arrow above the string nock.  In that case, 1/4” would not be too low.

[moebow]

I agree with Dave!  Nocking point too low 1/2" for starters.  AND!! the word is SPINE not spLine. FWIW

Arne

[mahantango]

Not sure what a 30 - 35# Gold Tip actually spines, but a 15-35# is .600 spine which is what most, including me, shoot out of 40-50# bows. I shoot .750 spine out of my 30# target recurve. I would say those shafts are pretty stiff for your bow and are going to give you fits tuning. Remember, carbon shaft ratings are for compound bows, cut past center and shot with a release aid. They require a much stiffer arrow.

[rutro]

I am now over my short dance with the carbon fiber arrows. I went back to the wood yesterday and it was like an old friend. I think drawing the bow is a lot like the mountain man style knife throwing my Dad got me into. It all boils down to muscle memory. 3000 to 5000 repetitions and you don't have to think about it, just do it. Then you can get to the finer points of it. If I try to concentrate on my form I seem to mess up some part of the process.
  I did something yesterday that is a hold over from the throwing, I put a playing card on the bag as a target. With a wood golf tee as a tack so no arrows will be damaged. I can say that it surprised me how many times I did hit it.
  I've got to ask if anyone has a trick to open and move nocks? I have almost ruined a string trying to open one. Ended up using a small screwdriver and finally got it done. But there must be an easier way......  Thanks again for all the reply's, I need all the adult supervision I can get.

[moebow]

rutro, Do you mean the nocking point locator on the string or the nock on your arrow??  There are tools that will open a brass nock locator without damage to the string.  IF your arrow nocks are too tight on the string you either need different nock OR you need to change the serving size for the string.

Arne

[McDave]

These  are typical nock pliers.  There are more expensive ones that work better, but these work better than a screwdriver.

These used to come with sharper ends, but they are now making them more blunt.  Maybe people cut strings with the sharp ones, I don't know, but I liked the sharper ones better.  I thought they worked better for removing nocks.  I suppose you could grind the ends of these down until they are a little sharper.  They don't need to be too sharp; just sharp enough to fit in the opening of the brass string nock.

[rutro]

Yes the locator on the string. I go dyslexic ever time I start typing. Those arrow nocks were a bit sung, but some of the new sanding plastic on a Popsicle stick got 'em just right. When the arrow stays on the string but won't hold the bow up seemed about right. I'll have a pair of those pliers shortly. I used a pair of crimping pliers from my electrical work. Great for putting them on..... I've got a bad case of DIY-itus. I got to start a bow one of these days.

[rutro]

I hope everyone had a happy healthy new year. The weather in Texas finally became winter like as it should have some time back. I have been working on the three under hold and it has been a revelation. Shooting split was just the way it was done where I learned to shoot. It still seems like the norm to me. But as I have worked at the three under I'm beginning to see how much more accurate it can be. I can tell when I get everything right even as I release, and the arrow hits where I'm looking. Now I can understand how some guys can talk about drilling bottle caps. That's where I would like to be. When I was learning to throw I found that the playing card was to large of a target. I started focusing on the golf tee. It wasn't long and I started splitting tees fairly often. Now when I throw I use a business card for target. One post I read in the archives was about drawing with eyes closed, that has helped me a lot. I have trouble lining up for proper shots and  when I close my eyes and draw then open to see where the target is in relation I'm always off to the right. So by moving me instead of the bow I can get lined up. Several times doing this helps me get a session started off right. Old dogs can learn some new tricks.... and those nock pliers are work great, thanks again.