Paper tuning struggle

[J. Holden]

I've been in the process of tuning some cedar arrows to my Two Tracks Ogemaw.  The bow is 55# @ 28" and I'm pulling 27ish.

I purchased a test kit from 3 Rivers and found that 80-85 spine is what the bow preferred.  This was after I tried 55-60 and 60-65.

My arrows are cut to 28.5" and have 160 grain tips.

I'm also a LEFT handed shooter.

I've been able to get the horrible weak tear out of the reading by finding the correct spine.  I also rid myself of the slightly high tear by adjusting the nock point.

However I'm still getting a slightly weak reading.  Today I messed around with decreasing the brace height from 7.5 to 7.  That's where the bowyer recommended it be.

Am I expecting something that isn't attainable?  A perfect bullet hole tear?  Am I being too OCD about this and a slightly weak reading is acceptable?

I'm going to try 145 grains up front next.  Also wondering if 4" feathers would make a difference vs. 5"

I'm headed on a bear hunt this spring and need the confidence in my equipment.

Thoughts?

-Jeremy

[J. Holden]

Just adding to my post as I can't seem to see it on the powwow home page...

-Jeremy

[JR Williams]

I think your on the right track. Lessening point weight could do it, you could also build out your strike plate a bit, maybe add a toothpick or something behind it. That will also make your arrow fly a little stiffer.

I wish you luck.  I never could pull off paper tuning when shooting fingers.  I always use the bare shaft and arrow group tuning method.

I tip my camo cap to those that can paper tune.

[tecum-tha]

So, you tried 55-60 and 60-65 and then jumped to 80-85????
Ok, let's see.
Your bow is 55#28, you draw 27". I assume you shoot around 7-7.5" brace height as shown in second post. Then you should end up at : (55/28-7)x20=52#@27.
FF Material? I assume yes. Then +8#.
.5" over 28=+2.5#; per 25 grains over 125grain add #5 pounds, so 35/25=7#.
Now, if your bow is cut to center and not slightly before center like normal longbows are, then I would add 5-7#.
Adding up: 52#+8#+2.5#+7#+(5# to 7#)= 74-76
Now, get a test set from Elite arrows with 73#- 73#-77# arrows. Get those full length and start cutting them down from 29" in 1/4" increments.
I wouldn't trust your test shafts too much, as we can't see the quality and thus spine readings are questionable.
If you require really 80 to 85 and still showing weak, your realese is probably not the best or do you have a groove in your glove?

[MnFn]

IDK, But I have two new bows in the house, a Stickflinger 55# and a Liberty Contender 55#.
I draw about 27" and both like 65/70 with 160 grn heads.

[Gator1]

I have had great luck paper tuning with fingers.  Far better than bare shaft method.   Tuning with fingers shouldn’t matter bare shaft or paper.   Same release.

[Biathlonman]

I'd have to shoot 75-80 or 80-85, out of bows with that specs and my 28" draw.

[J. Holden]

I appreciate all the thoughts and tips.  I'll try to address a few questions raised.

I am shooting with a tab and that is somewhat new for me.  Maybe a year now, before that I was strictly a glove guy.  I suppose I could try that and see if that makes a difference.

I ordered a test kit from 3 Rivers.  The kit contained 65-70, 70-75, 75-80 & 80-85.  I used the Stu Miller calculator to arrive at my perceived spine.  His calculator suggested 83 I believe.  So that is how I came to start with the 80-85.

String is fast flight, yes.

Thank you all again for help.  Especially the math.  I still have some of other spines from the test kit so I'll mess around with those.  I'll also tro Elite arrows and see what I can come up with.

-Jeremy

[Orion]

I dunno.  I think you're on the heavy side.  I'm thinking you shouldn't need more than 60-65. How is your arrow shelf cut?  

Could very well be a form problem.  Those kinds of tears can also be caused by plucking.  Are you keeping your hand tight to your face, and/or does it come back, not out when you shoot?  If not, form is the culprit. Pretty easy for one's form to lapse if one gets frustrated.

[MnFn]

I think I agree with Orion, I can shoot 60/65, but the 65/70 seemed more consistent. The 60/65 probably needs lighter heads.

About 7-8 years ago I was using a 53# Blacktail and thought I needed heavier spine-around 80, iirc.
The next year the more I shot at longer outdoor distances, I kept dropping down in spine. I ended up at 60/65.

[Hud]

What weight broadhead will you be using. Use the same weight field point to test.

What is the distance from your bow to the paper, and is there at least three feet behind the paper to the bale or backstop?

I am assuming your form is good and your bow is fairly center shot? If you not, the shaft needs to be weaker, not stiffer.  Heavier points will weaken the spine.

Did you start out shooting at about 5 ft and increase the distance to 10 yds., and get the same results?

Are you shooting with, or without feathers?

I suspect your are on the stiff side,

You can try having someone stand behind you and take a video (cell phone) so you can see what is going on. They need to be in front and slightly behind you. Use a tripod, or something to hold it steady.

[Hud]

If you have questions on paper tuning, you can refer to the following website.  

 http://elitearrows.com/proper-arrow/

[J. Holden]

I will be using a single bevel broadheads at 155 grains.  I also have the option of Ace broadheads at 160 grains.

I do not claim to have the perfect form at all.  I try my bestest that’s for sure.  But I am human.  Also I didnt realize I needed three feet between the paper tuner and the target.  How’s that effect the results.  I have enough room for a clean pass thru tho.  I asked the bowyer regarding the center shot question.  He said it’s “a little past”.  It looks darn near center to me.

I’m scratching my head that I’m getting a slightly weak reading and I’m reading to go weaker in spine.  This confuses me.  What is the thought behind that?

-Jeremy

[JR Williams]

I would go with what the shafts are telling you. A lot of variables with release, shelf cut, tiller, arrow length, tip weight, strings, nock fit to serving etc. etc.

 What works for some other people may not work for you. Go with what your shaft says. If you were showing weak, then went up in spine and are now showing slight weak, you are on the right path.

 Can lessen tip weight, or build out strike plate.

 I would not go down in spine if the shaft doesn't indicate it.

[J. Holden]

Well, I tried all sorts of things today.  Different spines, different lengths, different tabs and gloves, even different underwear    

[JR Williams]

Good to hear! Glad you got it figured out.