Baffled by a little buffalo test...

[Benny Nganabbarru]

Well, yesterday my mate Tony borrowed my .416 Rigby and killed a fantastic bull buffalo. He was in good condition, and had 51 inch horns, tip to tip - a real sweeper. We went back to the crash site to get some meat and the head, after having gone for a bit of a walk in front of a grass fire with our bows. We'd propped the buffalo up into a sitting position for the photos. I decided it would be interesting to see how my non-buffalo arrows would perform. I was expecting them to maybe go in halfway. They're  Douglas Fir arrows, wearing the big 190 grain Ribteks, for a total weight of 805 grains, and launched from 80 pounds of Silvertip at 28 inches. I had three shots, using the same arrow each time without resharpening it. Each time I was shooting for the boiler room. Each time I hit a rib, and only got five or six inches of penetration. On all but the last shot, I was able to yank the arrow out. On the last shot, it was stuck, and I had to dig for it. It had hit and split the rib vertically in the centre, and had even taken off a two inch sliver of wood where the broadhead joins the shaft. All shots were taken at about three metres range, due to the vegetation. So, although I was disappointed, I knew to begin with that these are not buffalo arrows, but pig and donkey arrows. Now Tony also decided to have a go with his little Hoyt recurve. It's 55 pounds, and he had about three shots with a 475 grain carbon arrow, and one shot with a similar weight aluminium. He was probably shooting Muzzy Phantom two-bladers, or Bonebreakers, I'm not sure. The lucky blighter missed the ribs three times, getting about fifteen or sixteen inches of penetration, and once he clipped a rib, and the arrow glanced around it and still penetrated better than mine!

By the way, the Ribtek ribs didn't foul or clog-up with anything, and the broadhead was not damaged in the least.

I'm going to load-up some Grizzlystiks, and see how they fly.

Just thought you lads might find it interesting.

[Michael Baker]

Ben I would suspect that the arrows arn't flying properly at that range and that could be the reason for lack of penetration. I have found that with my Buff arrows at forward weight they don't stabilise properly unless I am 15 m from my target so if I get closer the penetration suffers....strange but true for me ....

PS..I am looking to fine tune the arrows for next hunt so they fly better as I have been shooting my buff at under 15m.

Do a paper test at that range and see whats going on because 805 gn arrows should do the job, My arrows are 820gns.590gns FOC.

Mick

[Benny Nganabbarru]

Could be right, there, Mick. Just cut the feathers of a field point arrow, and on average it hit perfectly - just a bit nock high - right up to the point where the mongrel thing snapped when it hit the target...and I thought I'd told myself not to ever bother bare-shaft tuning woodies ever again, as it gets to flamin' hairy sometimes, even with well-flying arrows. But anyway, I've brought the nock down a whisker, and I'll see how that goes tomorrow (a bit tired now, as I was also playing with Grizzlystiks...baffling things they are, too - I put about 500 grains up front for a total of 1030 grains, and got pretty good flight up close, as well as a few good ones from back a bit, and then when I went down to about 400 grains up front for a total of just over 900 grains, I couldn't tell the difference). I'm starting to see more merit in paper-tuning. Well, tomorrow's another day! Cheers, Ben

[Ben Maher]

its probably the bow......ha ha ha

bare tuning woodies never worked for me...i keep 'em feathered and full length just cutting them back til they hit where i'm looking. i do this with 3 b'heads and three blunts and/or field points.
give yourself a bit of room so that your arrows are straightening out...try at 10 to 15 mtres...

been trying to call you all w'end..
be well

ben

[tradtusker]

interesting results, it sounds to me like the arrows are not flying strait and really hindering penetration.
should be enough bow and arrow weight to penetrate very well, i dare say the carbons will defiantly out penetrate the woodies, but tuning i think is the key   something i will not overlook again.
have you ever tested to see if a different broadhead like a zwickey or grizzly would penetrate better than a ribtek?

let us know how you get on tomorrow.  

[Falk]

Ben,
this just sounds like the effect of rigor mortis to me - with the buff more concret like               :D  

When I read "three meters range" I also thought, that was maybe to close for the arrow to straighten. Not very encouraging result with what would sound like plenty of bow to many, not? Interesting post!

[Rick McGowan]

The Ribteks didn't do well in my penetration tests and I really wanted them to, since I could get them for free! The Ribtek is a big head also and more likely to hit a rib than a narrower head. The smaller dia. carbon shafts will also penetrate better than the fat woods. I'm also guessing tuneing is a factor, not many arrows are straightened out well by three meters and carbons recover faster than wood.

[Benny Nganabbarru]

I think you guys have hit the nail on the head with tuning and wooden arrow flight at that range. Also, Rick, I haven't got any Grizzly 160s or 190s at present, and my question is are they narrower than the Ribtek 190s? Tony's broadheads, whatever they were, were more narrow than mine. You use Grizzly 190s, right, Rick? Cheers, Ben

[LEOPARD]

Interesting post Ben!
It's surprising you didn't get more penetration, I agree with others above that it must be arrow flight/tuning at that close range because with those specs, you should have really good penetration!
Thanks for sharing! It'll be interesting to see your other results!  :D

[Al Kidner]

Hi mate, interesting thread indeed.

After talking with Brad "Killer" Kane (The late Billy Baker's hunting guide and best mate) on this very subject a few weeks back - buff arrow wight- he told me outright to "Use enough arrow, the more the better". 1000 grains is a good aiming point.No pun there either. Naturally well tuned and flying stright also with other factors involved.

I've a scrub bull hunt up my sleeve whenever I sort the time out and not running the roads of Iraq. I have some forgewoods that Danny Rowen sent me, 1 dozen in fact. I'm hopen these will reach at least 950g with a 165 STOS up front and a few coats of finish ontop of my cresting. This will be my testing for Buffalo when I sort that hunt out also.

 Plnning on sending them through my PSAX Osage, drawing 73# at my 30" draw. See how things go but hopefully I'll be hunting a scrubber sometime this year.

Enjoy the new bow mate.


AK.

[Rick McGowan]

I agree with Al of course on the heavier the better for BIG game, as long as the flight is perfect. Ben, yes, I now use the 190 Grizzly for buffalo, but I started out with the 160 Magnus based on bad info from someone that should have known better and I bounced an arrow off the ribs of a very big bull with an 80# recurve, then I went to the 160 Grizzly, which worked PERFECTLY, but when the 190 came out, I switched to them. The profiles of the 190s Grizzly and Ribtek are nearly identical, except the Grizzly is 1/8" narrower at the rear, which makes it closer to 3-1, but I suspect the penetration is slowed down more by the ribs or the ferrule bands.

[Rik]

Man, you guys are bringing back some good memories.

I wanted to shoot a buff in the worst way with a 160-grain Ribtek, as that is what I have so much luck with on mule deer, bear, and big bull elk here in North America, but Bill Baker and Brad Kane said "No Way Mate, these are big brutes, you need a Grizzly!"

Well, they were right. I killed two dandy Melville Island bulls and had excellent penetration through heavy hide and thick bone with the 160-grain Grizzlies. I love my Ribteks, but have to admit, the Grizzlies were the ticket for Australian Buff.

I know you "could" kill a buff with other heads if all things are perfect, but I know you "can" kill a buff with Grizzlies even if you hit thick bone.

I was using a 75-pound Howard Hill longbow with Ipe (Brazilian Mahogany) arrows tipped with 160-grain Grizzlies. Total arrow weight was 860 grains.

The first bull I shot was laying down in a mud wallow, and from 15 yards I shot through the bottom of the sternum between his front legs, penetrating the heavy sternum bone (think thick, thick bone), driving up through the heart and lungs, and driving deep into the spine. The bull jumped up and locked eyes with me at 15 yards, and I thought that was it for me, but the effects of the arrow were already working on him, so I am here and he is not.

On the second bull, a large, heavily rutting herd bull, my arrow penetrated thick hide, centered a heavy rib, drove through the heart, and penetrated deeply into a heavy rib on the far side.

That's not bad for a 75-pound straight-limbed bamboo longbow, but in actuality, it's all due to the heavy arrow and narrow, long, ultra-sharp broadheads.

P.S. I was on the phone tonight with a friend in Australia, and with luck, will be returning for an Outback hunt in 2009. Backpack tents and a tarp, cooking over a campfire next to a fish-filled billabong for three weeks, and with luck, some large boars and bloody arrows. Can't wait mates!

[eric-thor]

hate to just drop a coment and run but . your arrow was still in paradox. and therefore didnt have neerly as much KE. i had the same experience with much lighter gear yet at 8 yards my arrow barly penitrated the other side of a 60 pound ram about 1.5 yrs old . and at 30 yrds passed through a 250 lb. boar. same setup  wood arrows sitca spruce. zwicky140gr two blades. 575gr arrow . i find wood recovers from parodox the fastest of other materials btw.54lb@28'Thomahawk Thunderstorm.