TBM did not do thier homework huh?

[d. ward]

I been really busy and hardly have had time to do anything but work on bows.I love it too.But yesterday I got to thumb thru the latest issuse of TBM...They are all great folks there and do a fantastic job...I really think that TBM and sights like tradgang are great and keep us all linked...But someone did not do there homework this time or a miss-print maybe the interviewer got it wrong.Not sure...page 46 shows Vern Struble with a buck and a recurve bow.The pic is dated 1951....odd thing the bow was not built until 1954 or 1955.There were no recurves until 1953 and not mass produced until 1954.....weird huh....bowdoc

[PAPALAPIN]

Doc

You don't miss a thing.  If I ever try to get published, I'm gonna send it to you first for proofing.

[TRAP]

In "Bows on the Little Delta" page 203 Fred Bear is roasting ribs with a RH 59 or 60 Kodiak in the background.  

The chapter is written about the 1958 Little Delta hunt.  

Was the picture just used as a filler or did Fred take a bunch of Prototype "new model" 59s with him for all his hunting buddies?

Trap

[d. ward]

Oh yeah Fred brought several bows along on hunts to test out.There was a camo 1959 Kodiak not mag but Kodiak 52" along on the Delta trip.The bow was marked Kodiak just like all the rest,but it was only 52".I have no idea where that bow got off to after the sale of the P&Y musium.I know it is not on display at the musium.One of the StCharles family members may still have it.That was the early proto of the mags....bowdoc

[TRAP]

Would have been kinda neet to be one of his hunting buddies in the day.  

Can you imagine Fred getting off the plane with a handful of new bows and handing them out to everyone with a   "Here boys, try these out and tell me what ya think"

Trap

[d. ward]

Once while hunting with StCharles (lefthanded also) Fred's bow got broken,while dragging a boat ashore I guess...anyhow,Fred says to Glenn you got a back up bow.Glenn replaies sure and hands Fred I believe Glenn told me a 1961 Kodiak Magnum...Glenn said Fred immeditly pulled out his hunting knife and proceded to cut the shelf off Glenn's bow.I was laughing my butt off when Glenn told me about it...Takeing of what an honor for Fred Bear to cut the shelf off your back up bow with a hunting knife.....bowdoc

[TRAP]

that's priceless Doc

[d. ward]

Hey Trap,the bow got sold off the used bow rack at Northwest Archery after the fact once StCharles returned to Seattle from the hunt.I've spent years searching yard sales and flee markets just hopeing to find a 1961 with the shelf cut off with a knife...no luck as yet.........bowdoc

[Liquid Amber]

I don't know who made the bow Vern is holding in that photo, but if your statement is referring "generically" to recurves and mass production...I think you might check out the archery periodicals of 1950 and 1951.  Seems to be quite a few fiberglass backed recurves in photos and advertisements.

That Kodiak Bear is advertising in 1950 looks like a mass produced glass recurve.  Then again, I'm no bow expert, only a collector of old paper.

[d. ward]

One of the first working recurves was a Bear Archery's K11 or one of the first mass produced...but not until 1954.Babe Bitzebberger shot a StCharles Thunderbird in 1953 which was a kinda reflexed deflexed if you will somewhat working recurve.But not like the full working recurve in the pic with Vern.Just asking...bowdoc

[Falk]

Had the same thought as Liquid Amber, thinking of Russ Willcox "Duoflex" bows with a full working recurve. Not glass backed and total production numbers may have been low, but older still ...
BTW: I don't know the picture from the magazin, can someone post it?

[Liquid Amber]

Roy Case is generally given credit for introducing the term "recurve" to archery.  Interesting is that Case hung "recurve" on static or stiff eared bows, one whose ends didn't unfold during drawing to differentiate it from bows with reflexed and curved, or full working recurves.

In 1930 George Higgins came up with a working  "self" recurve or reflexed bow as it was called at the time that is a mirror image of the bow Vern is holding in the unbraced position.

Clarence Hickman applied for a patent on a full working recurve in 1935 and was rewarded with it in 1937.  This was a laminated bow.

Russ Willcox's made his first fully working recurve in March 1941 and took his design from Hickman as he noted in a 1960 issue of TAM magazine.

During the late 1940s/early 1950, several folks were backing and facing these bows with fiberglass.    

Bear patented a working recurve in 1953, but that is well after the design had been in use.  He soon massed produced these bows.

The photo may or may not be accurately dated, but using the design or unbraced profile as a judge of the photo's dating isn't a good method in this case.

I'm assuming Bowdoc doesn't know the identity of the bow.  If so, and he hasn't stated he does, then all this may be moot.     Identification of the bow and mounted quiver Vern is shown with would be useful.  Likely someone out there can identify them.

[d. ward]

I believe it says he hunted 1951 in Nason Creek Washington and used a 54# Damon Howatt.What also caught my eye is the Bear 4 arrow screw on quiver ? Were those around in 1951 ??? Just wondering.Thanks bowdoc

[d. ward]

Was just wondering if maybe I had Verns old bow and quiver.The quiver may be the one laying beside the bow.It was prior to the silk screening of the quivers.

[d. ward]

Sorry I could not find the mounting screw so I used some masking tape to mount the quiver.bowdoc

[Liquid Amber]

I can't help on the quiver.  

Since Damon Howatt started making bows in the 1930s and was a leader in plastic and fiberglass backings/facings and making stiff ended/static recurves in the mid-40s, its logical to assume he would have been on the cutting edge with working recurves.  Flight shooting was a keen interest of his and all sorts of recurves were experimented with for that activity.  Then again, you probably already know all that stuff.

Bow sure looks like my Great Northern Ghosts.  

I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't already know the date of manufacture on that old bow.  

[d. ward]

I thought they kinda look like a GNG as well.Lots of backset or recurve to the bows back then as apposed to some built these days.Neet looking bows from years gone by...bowdoc

[kenscollick]

When I seen the picture I thought the same thing so I emailed Tim his response was the picture was correct and there were a few working recurves in 1951. Even if the picture is not correct it as a great story about Vern I have had the pleasure of meeting him a few times.

As far as the GN Ghost looking like a K2 that is no coincidence Jerry Brumm told me that they used the K2 as an example. when designing the ghost.