What makes a vintage bow a "shooter"?

[bctgrad]

Since I’ve been fortunate enough to recently add a bow to my collection that is described by almost everybody as a “shooter”, I thought I would ask what exactly makes a vintage bow a “shooter”.  Is it the design, materials and construction (and, if so, why can’t the performance be matched by the reproductions of the classic bows)?  Is it the history of proven performance?  Or is it something that just has to be experienced when you shoot the bow?  Is one guy’s “shooter” another guy’s dog?

I’ve only shot the bows that I own and would really like to know the thoughts of you who have shot many bows and can tell the difference.

Brian

[Winterhawk1960]

Brian,

This is just "my opinion" and having just gotten started acquiring a vintage bow or two and also owning several custom bows my opinion is.........

I think that the same thing that makes "any" bow a shooter is that it points well at the target and hits where I am looking. Most bows require some "fine tuning" to get them to shoot where you are looking depending on whether they are center cut, cut in front of center, or cut past center. This can make a bow shoot either left/right of where you are looking or dead on.

I also think that the design, materials and construction will show with how well you shoot one bow or another. There are some excellent "reproduction bows" out there today and I have a friend that has a vintage '59 Kodiak as well as the McCullough 59er. They both shoot similar but for me, I would have to give the "nod" to the 59er as far as being a "shooter" to me. The advances in limb design and materials I believe make the McCullough bow a "friendlier" bow to shoot. As far as pointability and hitting where you look, they are strikingly the same.......once again "to me".

I have had the opportunity to attend several of the bigger shoots and I make it a point to shoot anything that I can get my hands on. I have had about 4 bows that have "spoken to me" when I shot them the very first time. This "spoken to me" thing that I am referring to is that when you pick the bow up, nock an arrow draw it back, your hand just melts into the grip and is very repeatable. Then when you let the arrow go.........it hits right where you are looking without any adjustments of brace height, nocking point height, sideplate/strikeplate adjustment what-so-ever. It is indeed to me.......a "feeling". Everything about the bow and the shot process makes the bow so pleasurable to shoot because it just does what it was intended to do. If that makes any sense at all.

I have no idea how many different makes and models of bows that I have shot, but when what I am speaking of happens to either you or anyone else........you will know it without a doubt. I like variety and have more bows than I will ever need.........BUT...........that doesn't keep me from shooting bows that I haven't shot before. I just enjoy "variety"......I guess. The bows that are keepers to me, whether they are vintage or top of the line customs are the ones that I can consistantly shoot well. I'm not in search of the "magic bow" or anything like that, I just truly enjoy a variety of bows, made out of different woods, by different bowyers that appeal to me not only visually but can repeatedly be shot well.

Truth is........there isn't a bow out there that can shoot any better for me than I am capable of shooting it. The problem has never been the "bow" for me........it has always been the fella behind it. I have good days.........and bad days. The bad day shooting sessions rarely last very long for me and the good days have started to outnumber the bad ones.

Sometime.........somewhere, you will pick up a bow that has a grip that looks friendly to you, and perhaps you will even like the colors of the different woods that it is made of......perhaps not so much so, but when you hold it, draw it back to anchor, and let the arrow fly, it will indeed "speak to you"......

This is just my opinion......for what it is worth.                

Winterhawk1960

[PAPALAPIN]

Well said,  WinterHawk

I especially like the comment about a bow "speaking to you".  That is an excellent way to put it.

To me, any solid bow is a shooter.  Some shoot better than others for a particular individual.
If you ask someone what is the best bow ever made, don't be surprised if it just happens to be the bow he shoots.  Is he iased   ...Absolutejy...but he is also being honest...it is the best bow ever made, for him.

Each of us has to find the one bow that just feels like an extension of our body.  As WinterHark said, one that hits where you point it.

Don't be wayed by the guy that says you have to get a bow just like his...it may be perfect for him, but not for you.


Ya gotta find the bow that "speaks to you",
It's kinda like pickin' a wife.  What appeals to me may not be right for you, at all.  Pick the wrong wife and you are in for a miserable life.  Kinda the same thing with a bow.

[reddogge]

I have one bow, a 45# '64 Bear Kodiak that I seem to shoot better than any bow I have.  So much better that a friend of mine always tells me "Bring that old Kodiak next time" when we shoot 3-D.  Maybe it just has good MoJo for me.

The bad thing is I prefer to use 50# bows to hunt so it is a dilemna.

Also as Jack mentioned one persons preference is another's poison.  He has mentioned a bow he preferred over another and I had the opposite opinion.

[PAPALAPIN]

AH...The "THUNKER"

The '64 Kodiak has Mojo of it's own.. Many feel that it is the best shootin' hunting bow that Bear ever made.  Others feel that title goes to the '59 Kodiak.

The '64 has a distictive sound when it is shot.  "THUNK"

I call them the "THUNKERS"

[Ron Roehrick]

well said Winterhawk I totally agree. My package arrived thanks. Did you get my PM. Ron.

[Winterhawk1960]

Yes Ron........and you've got another one.

Winterhawk1960

[Ron Roehrick]

Don thanks for the reply and your help and generosity is really appreciated. Ron.

[69RECURVE]

I agree totally with Winterhawk. In my life I have only had 2 or 3 Bows that " spoke to me". I truly believe it is a rare thing. I will go so far to say a lot of us might unfortunatly go through life and not ever have that "speak to me" feeling. I know that after 51 years of shooting it's only happened to me within the last ten years. Up until then I never knew that the feeling was even attainable.

The first time it hits you it will knock your socks off, you will know it.

[bctgrad]

Thanks for the replies.  

I understand having a certain bow speak to you or having a bow that is your personal favorite "shooter".  My exposure has been limited almost exclusively to the 10 bows that I own and my current go to "shooter" is one that wouldn't make too many top lists (50# '76 Kodiak Hunter).  

I guess my real question is; why are there several bows that almost universally get the response of "that's a shooter"?  For example, the '59 Kodiak was mentioned above along with the '64 Kodiak (which got the response "best shootin' bow that Bear ever made).  What is it about these specific years and models over the same model of a different year?  Did everything just come together right in certain years?  Or did design and materials change enough to affect performance from year to year?

This is all relatively new to me and I’d really like to understand it better.

Thanks,
Brian

[PAPALAPIN]

Heck...I wish my wife would "speak to me"

[Winterhawk1960]

Brian,

I understand that you are asking about the "ergonomics" of certain model bows, or specific designs. Once again, my opinion is that bow designs have continued to evolve into what the specific manufacturer "thought" would "feel and fit" the most archers. The whole idea of a bow being easy to hold, easy to point, and last but not least, both smooth and easy to shoot were what the engineers behind the development of different riser and limb combinations were trying to achieve.

There STILL isn't one model or make of a bow that will satisfy every archers wants and needs. There are however certain ones that lend themselves to a specific archers wants and needs. I would say that every bowyer from the beginning of time has been trying to suit what the majority of archers wants and needs, but that is an impossible feat to accomplish. The best that they can hope for is that a "majority" of the people that shoot "their" bows will find them ergonomically correct for their style of shooting.

I am at a point that I can pretty much look at a grip on a bow and tell you whether I can shoot it well or not. That is because I understand what "needs" to be present in that grip for me to consistantly hit where I'm looking. There is a lot of "physics" involved with building bows, especially the bows that are built today with foam cores and carbon laminations with varying amounts of reflex/deflex in the limbs. The riser has to be built in a way that is not only supportive of the limbs ability.......but be as comfortable and forgiving to shoot as possible.

My hats are off to the bowyers of the past and present. There is a lot more than meets the eye than just the beauty and power of a flexed limb. They spend lots and LOTS of time developing and testing, just as they did in the past trying to find the combinations that will appeal to the masses. They have to have the patience and tolerance of a saint. I couldn't do it.......let alone the fact that the time and money that they spend developing new things can't be reflected to highly in the price of the finished product or they just won't get many orders.

I believe that the "basics" of riser and limb design was found long ago.......the bowyers are just "tweeking" this......and that to try and get what the customer is demanding.

Shooting a bow for me is FUN......I have nothing to prove to anyone except myself. I know that I'm not that good.......but man I gotta tell ya. I sure as hell am enjoying the journey and people that I have been blessed with meeting as a result of picking back up a traditional bow after all those years.

Last thing I wanna say is that for me......the GRIP on a bow, as well as the ability for the limbs to be long enough to not pinch the crap out of my fingers with my longer draw is what allows me to shoot them well. Each and every bow that I have as of right now is what I would call a "shooter". But I'd be willing to bet that unless a person's shooting style was very similar to mine that it wouldn't be true for anyone else.

Winterhawk1960

[hootie c]

My three kodiak specials speak to me well.Joey

[BobT]

Originally posted by bctgrad:
Thanks for the replies.  


I guess my real question is; why are there several bows that almost universally get the response of "that's a shooter"?  For example, the '59 Kodiak was mentioned above along with the '64 Kodiak (which got the response "best shootin' bow that Bear ever made).  What is it about these specific years and models over the same model of a different year?  Did everything just come together right in certain years?  Or did design and materials change enough to affect performance from year to year?

This is all relatively new to me and I’d really like to understand it better.

Thanks,
Brian

Brian,

In my opinion, the '59 and '64 are recognized as great shooters because they can be shot so well by so many different shooters. The grips feel "right" to a lot of different hands. It's hard for me to put a finger on exactly but as an example I'll offer this, I have a '58 Kodiak that just felt good the minute I got my hands on it and I shoot this bow like no other I own. I twisted up a new string for it the other day and decided to shoot it some to stretch it out, I grabbed a mixed handfull of arrows of the correct spine (more or less) and started shooting, even without a nock point tied in this bow was shooting mixed arrows into tiny little clusters at what ever distance I was shooting.

I have faith in this bow!

Bob