A question I wish was stupid

[mangonboat]

As most folks reading this part of TradGang already know, Bear and some other manufacturers made a few bows with Brazilian Rosewood. Brazilian Rosewood is now a CITES Appendinx I (Critically Endangered) species of which commerical use is now   prohibited and, effective June of 2014, you cannot   use brazilain rosewood in any form, e.g.  a guitar fretboard, a bow or anything else in any commercial activity or move it across state lines or international borders unless you have written documentation that it was imported and put into service before it was protected.  http://www.fws.gov/international/pdf/regulation-part23-use-after-import.pdf.  In short, you better have a copy of that 1962 Bear catalog in your bow case. But what if you want to post a on a forum or website that you want to sell or buy a bow made with Brazilian Rosewood...is that a commercial use? Suffice it to say that guitarists with vintage instruments  are VERY concerened. Should we be worried?

[reddogge]

Hear is a document pertaining to musical instruments but I would think bows and other objects made from Brazilian rosewood, ivory, etc would be similar. I don't think you need to worry unless you are exporting these items out of the country or importing them into the country. I would be very careful though if you intend to travel out of the country with a Brazilian rosewood bow or a nice old Martin guitar. You may loose it. But I don't think they are going to be breaking down my door to confiscate my '62 Kodiak.

  http://www.acousticmusic.org/CITES-and-ESA-sp-78.html

[mangonboat]

Talked today with a USFW enforcement officer who thought that no documents were required except for sales by a dealer or taking such a bow across international borders. Extensive documentation definitely required for that.

Guitarists have a bigger problem: that tiny strip of elephant ivory in the bridge of your 1960's Martin Dreadnaught might as well be fissile nuclear material for the paperwork you would need to legally travel with such a  guitar.

[eidsvolling]

Do not fool around with the international border question:

   US teenagers have bagpipes seized at Canada border after competition

   Budapest Orchestra Has Bows Seized Over Ivory Concerns

[reddogge]

The only way I heard to check whether it's ivory or plastic is to push a red hot pin into it. It will penetrate plastic and not ivory.

[damascusdave]

Mark as I said in our email discussion this information is going to change how I do things considerably...just because the Customs people have let Brazilian Rosewood through in the past does not mean they could not confiscate the next bow without recourse...we really have no idea what sort of information they have at their disposal to identify a bow as having Brazilian Rosewood in it...that could be a very expensive lesson, one I am no longer willing to risk...thank you for bringing it to my attention, to our attention

DDave

[mangonboat]

Dave, its not like you haven't managaged to find a couple bows made without Brazilian rosewood by Canadian bowyers...

[damascusdave]

Thanks bunches Mark...now I have to try to find  bows made with Brazilian Rosewood by Canadian bowyers...guess my collecting just took a rather different turn

DDave

[Kingstaken]

I picked up a longbow where there were a couple ivory pcs inlaid in the limbs. The guy I bought from said they cam from an old piano where the keys were saved and used in the bow. I don't plan on traveling with it overseas. Is this an issue for me?

[reddogge]

Originally posted by Kingstaken:
I picked up a longbow where there were a couple ivory pcs inlaid in the limbs. The guy I bought from said they cam from an old piano where the keys were saved and used in the bow. I don't plan on traveling with it overseas. Is this an issue for me?

I built my son a flintlock rifle in 1980 and inlaid a hunter's star in the cheekpiece made from an old ivory piano key. I'd advise him the same as you don't take it out of the country to be safe. As long as you keep it in the country you should be OK with it.

[mangonboat]

Definitely dont take it out of the country. You can go through a lot of red tape to get the paperwork to do so, but you have to have docs, in advance, from every country you pass through so a re-routed plane could cost you your bow, rifle, quiver, etc.

[Horney Toad]

I found another related link with a large .pdf file:

Here's a link to the USDA CITES Timber Species Manual. Perhaps it should be required reading for anyone who owns an instrument.

 http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/plants/manuals/ports/downloads/cites.pdf

[highlife]

So ... what about my Fred Bear Signature series custom take down .... hummmm, dont take that across the border!