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Author Topic: Possible to Self Guide in SA?  (Read 2439 times)

Offline Fealks

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Possible to Self Guide in SA?
« on: November 17, 2004, 02:13:00 PM »
My girlfriend and I are making a trip to SA at the end of April-early May.  I want to stay an extra week and do some bowhunting.  We have several friends with some connections on some property in SA.  

1) is it legal to do a self guided hunt there?
2) if they know where water holes are, what kind of odds do you think I'd have on some plains game?
3) Does anyone know of any good booking agents or ranches there that can offer a reasonably priced hunt with this type of short notice?  

I know I'm looking to cut some corners by not patronizing one of the larger game ranches that are always mentioned but thats what my wallet will allow.  I'm looking for an opportunity to spend some time in the bush with a decent chance at Kudu, warthog, impala etc.  I don't need the biggest baddest (who wouldn't want it though) but just a solid opportunity.  

I plan on bringing an ultrlight treestand or sling and a Double Bull Blind.  

Okay lets hear some thoughts on this from all you folks that have been there and done that.  Thanks--Chad

Offline crane

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Re: Possible to Self Guide in SA?
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2004, 04:15:00 PM »
Check out an issue of Africa's Bowhunter. They have a listing of ranches that cater to locals that are priced significantly lower that what you are seeing.

Offline Danny Rowan

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Re: Possible to Self Guide in SA?
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2004, 11:11:00 PM »
I think the laws require a Professional Hunter to be with you when you hunt, so I do not think you can go hunting on your own. Did some research a few years back and almost every place in SA is the same, gotta have the services of a PH.

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Offline hunt it

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Re: Possible to Self Guide in SA?
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2004, 01:00:00 PM »
99.9% of South Africa is private land. On these private ranches all game belongs to the land owner. Many run put and take operations where they order animals as needed and game ranchers deliver what ordered. All of these operations will have the land owner and his sons/daughters licenced as Professional Hunters so that they can take anyone out themselves without paying for PH's. Many of these ranches cater to local South African hunters and they pay considerably lower prices than the overseas client. All the big operations that you read about are run considerably different as they cater to an overseas hunting clientele and it costs considerably more for this AFRICAN EXPERIENCE. You will save lots if your friend calls some of these smaller operations and books this for you. Any of these operations should provide oportunity to shoot at animals from a blind at a water hole if that is what your into. Tryinjg to spot and stalk on one of these ranches is not real sucessful as people have been shooting at these critters with a gun. Many native South African bowhunters sit at these blinds all night and use flood lites hooked up to battries in the blind and shoot game this way. Not real sporting but if ya gotta have it, this is how they do it. In my opinion the South African hunting experience can be had in Texas any time you want it. Africa has some wonderful free range hunting opportunities for the bow hunter, but this is not done in a few days on a side trip and not in South Africa.
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Offline Fealks

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Re: Possible to Self Guide in SA?
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2004, 11:10:00 AM »
Thanks for the replies folks.  I will be making some calls to the landowners there and do a little more fleshing out.  I appriciate your suggestions and aid.

Offline Howling Moon

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Re: Possible to Self Guide in SA?
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2004, 10:48:00 AM »
Sorry I am responding so late on this issue, but now that I have read it I must try to amend the damage done. Being a South African myself, I can vouch that the average bowhunter does not hunt from a hide at nigh using a floodlight. This is simply just not true! Wild pigs and leopard are the only animals hunted from a blind at nigh (using a light) the rest of the 54 available species are hunted during the day from blinds or on foot.

Most bowhunters in South Africa are very ethical. If you are interested in bowhunting Africa, please visit  www.africasbowhunter.co.za  and  www.africanarcher.com  to get some articles and information on what is really happening over here.

Many ranches only allow bowhunting and the animals and the animals on these ranches are very calm.

It is true, though, that hunters from other countries have to hunt with a PH and yes prices for non-local hunters are more expensive. Still, with the US dollar/Rand exchange rate being what is, it is not expensive hunting in South Africa.

Offline Windknot

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Re: Possible to Self Guide in SA?
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2004, 04:22:00 PM »
'Nother South African here- I don't know where hunt it got that info from. You CAN self guide, but since there is no public land as such you'll need the landowner's permission. I don't think they'll let anyone hunt without at least a tracker, but you never know.

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Offline hunt it

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Re: Possible to Self Guide in SA?
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2004, 02:18:00 PM »
Not trying to start anything, but I have been there and witnessed it. As with any group there are some that are not as ethical as others. When in South Africa several of the top bowhunters laughed at my trying to spot and stalk hunt eland and buffalo. These guys names are all over the record books, they shot their eland and buffalo at night with lights at water holes. Again, I know not everyone hunts this way. Just stating it how I saw it. I have a buddy that hunted South Africa three or four times for buffalo and on the fifth hunt he shot a monster, at a water hole at night with lights. This was at one of the big operations mentioned here over and over and hunted by some of the better known guys here. You guys that live there know that this happens quite frequently. As a booking agent and someone who has hunted Africa a fair amount I am just calling it as it is.  I never said everyone did it this way.
hunt it

Offline crane

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Re: Possible to Self Guide in SA?
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2004, 05:54:00 PM »
hunt it- I may die of curiosity....... who?

Offline Biggie Hoffman

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Re: Possible to Self Guide in SA?
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2004, 08:10:00 AM »
Honestly, I think you'd be cheating yourself out of one of the greatest hunts of your life by trying to do Africa on yur own. While somewhat embarrassing at 1st, being waited on hand and foot is kinda unique and remember, it's only for a week or so. Also, the natives depend on your tips to eat, not to buy a mercedes. Once you get over your American programming, it's kinda nice!

As far as the nitelights comments above, they are all second hand if I read them correctly. I wouldn't worry too much about that going on. We never heard or saw any of that.
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Offline crane

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Re: Possible to Self Guide in SA?
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2004, 09:02:00 AM »
Biggie- His buddy told him about it. Thats not too second hand. I've made a few trips and have never heard of the "practice". So,hunt it,...........?

Offline Rick McGowan

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Re: Possible to Self Guide in SA?
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2004, 10:15:00 AM »
I don't know if the law has changed or not, but several years ago it was NOT legal for NON-RESIDENTS to hunt alone. I've noticed that the posts saying it is legal are SA residents.

Offline Howling Moon

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Re: Possible to Self Guide in SA?
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2004, 11:57:00 AM »
I can assure you it is still against the law to self guide in South Africa and I am pretty sure it is the case in Namibia. I am not sure about Zimbabwe, Zambia and Mozambique. But some South African ranchers do take the risk on themselves and allow non-locals to hunt on there own – either by leaving them alone in the blind or by letting them walk and stalk. On some ranches the PH will let the hunter spot and stalk on his own – by bringing him to the game and then letting the hunter venture closer on his own to make the kill.
   One of the reasons international hunters are not allowed to hunt alone is since they  might misjudge the size of the animals horns. An eight month old gemsbok might look big to a non-resident but his horns would be only ten inches long. And it is often very hard to judge the length of a kudu, for instance. With a PH on his side, such a mistake will not happen. Mostly a hunter wants a trophy animal and the rancher wants the PH to help the hunter get what he wants.
   Hunt it, I am sure there are some local hunters who hunt by night with a light, but I can assure you most bowhunters over here frown upon it. It is legal to hunt only leopard and bushpig over bait and with a light at night. It is against the law to hunt any other game with a light at night. Come to South Africa, I will sponsor you a kudu. I am confident you will come back.

Offline The Dutchman

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Re: Possible to Self Guide in SA?
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2005, 04:05:00 AM »
Thank you Rean, as a fellow South African and bowhunter, it's with joy that I read your repies to hunter's post.
I am a land-owner myself and hunt on my own land by the walk and stalk metod, but in all fairness, I'll have to know a person extreamly well before I'll let him or her hunt on their own on my land. Too often do one hear of farmers that find dead domestic stock, either shot willfuly or by a stray projectile.
Sure you do get hooligans every where. In the old day we had so called hunters whom would shoot with small calibar rifels at game from the back of a LDV at extreamly long distances, and sadly to say that it seem that this hooligansime has blown over to bowhunting.
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Offline hunt it

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Re: Possible to Self Guide in SA?
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2005, 08:53:00 AM »
Hi Guys,

Been away for a few days. Lots of discussion here on my comments, thats good. However, I have spent three weeks touring hunting ranches in South Africa and I will stand by my facts. On Government Concessions or National Parks land it is ILLEGAL to use artificial light. On private property it is NOT ILLEAGAL and it does happen with some frequency. Now, that it is NOT ILLEGAL that means that it can be done, I never said everyone does it. I said it happens and it is not fair chase in my opinion. Not alot different than the use of dogs here for bears or cats or the use of bait, it is one's own preference and if it is LEGAL then its up to the individual. I just stated that it happens and at some of the big outfits. As for names, what purpose does that serve by naming individuals? Anyone that must have exact details is welcome to pm me and we can discuss further.I never said that any of the guys here that hunt Africa alot have done this. I can say for sure that some of them have been in camp when this has happened and that they are aware of it. I have booked hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of African hunts and will always make sure my clients have all the facts before they make their decision. As for the hunting on small ranches on your own, it is possible if a local hunter books it and it is cheaper the the safari outfits. It is done primarily at smaller ranches that cater mainly to local sport/biltong hunters on weekend type hunts. In most cases the landowner or his son or daughter are licenced PH's and will put bow hunters in blinds and leave them. I have been there and done this with a group of locals. Would I recommend this to anyone as an African hunt - NO. It is just as I stated a weekend event for locals to get biltong meat. It is a harvest at best, not a hunt. In MY OPINION, South Africa is a country for the hunter that wishes to go on a short hunt and must have a certain number of trophies for his/her dollars and has no issues with fenced game as majority of ranches are fenced. I however, prefer to spend fourteen days stalking one or two free ranging species in a country that permits bow hunting.
These are all facts and can be substantiated at any point. If any of the locals or guys that have been there wish to deny then so be it.I don't see any post here from the guys that I know frequent Africa and there is a reason for that.
hunt it

Offline Howling Moon

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Re: Possible to Self Guide in SA?
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2005, 12:28:00 PM »
Much of what Hunt It says is correct. Most game ranches in South Africa belongs to landowners and are fenced in. Most bow hunting is done from hides at water holes. Self guided hunts for international hunters are against the law. Many game ranch owners leave the hunters at the blinds and collect them later. It is certainly the place to go if you have little time to hunt and for this reason many ranchers do make it easy for their clients to get their animals. And everything that Hunt It says probably do happen over here, such as bow hunters hunting with artificial lights at night. What is important to me is that most of the bowhunters over here are not unethical hunters and will not take part in such practises. Most bowhunters over here will hunt from blinds at waterholes and very few will walk and stalk. Only a small percentage will hunt with a light at nigh, except for bushpig. I have contact with many local bowhunters who either send e-mails, phone or write letter. Whenever articles are published that have even a slight unethical colour to it, I am flooded with letter of protest. I am sure Hunt It never intended to accuse South African bowhunters in general of being unethical – he merely stated some hunters are. I know it is fairly common practise under the rifle hunters. Being a local I am probably a little touchy about such statement and I just want to make sure everyone knows it isn’t all of us, but only a small percentage.

About the legality of bowhunting with artificial light at night: Hunt It might be right, it could be that it is legal, but I do not know of this change in the law. It is legal to hunt with a light and a rifle on a ranch that is completely enclosed with game fence and that has permission from Nature Conservation. According to Cleve Cheney, who was a game ranger for 20 years and who owns a well-known bowhunting and field guiding school in South Africa, it is not legal with a bow. Cleve says hunting leopard, bushpig and problem animals, such as jackal and caracal, with a light is no problem, but not the average game animal. Mr Jan du Toit, also formally from Nature Conservation, is a well know figure in the bowhunting circles in South Africa. He wrote most of the bowhunting ordnance many years ago and is still very interested in bowhunting law. He assures me it is still illegal to hunt with a bow and artificial light at night. But I guess this is besides the point anyway. Some bowhunters will do it and are doing it, whether it is legal or not. What is important that it is only the very few.

Traditional bowhunting is not very big in South Africa at the moment and are not well catered for over here. However, there are outfitters such as Kruger Human and Benito van Leeuwen who goes out of their way to accommodate traditional bowhunters. I have been to many ranches over the last five years to do evaluations and most of them allowed me to walk and stalk. I agree with Hunt It, though: hunting in an unfenced area is certainly the ultimate hunting experience. The best hunting experience is probably walking and stalking,  using an all-wooden bow and wooden arrows one has made oneself, and wearing no camo – just comfortable well-worn clothing. it would even be better to use a stone arrow head one has flint knapped oneself. What people want from a challenging hunt differs. For some a glass laminated bow is fine, other might frown upon it as much as they frown upon a compound. For some walking and stalking on a fenced ranch is fine, while other prefer sitting in a blind. Hunt It prefers open areas, with no fences and for this I admire him. Unfenced areas are hard to find in South Africa – if they exist over here at all. South Africa is not his hunting ground and I have no quarrel with him if he prefers other African countries. However, this does not mean other bowhunters will not enjoy visiting the country and will not have an African experience. An excellent hunting experience, and in my opinion ethical and in fair chase, is sure to be had over here and I can give the names of many a US bowhunter who has been here and who keeps on coming back. Some of these are traditional bowhunters, of which at least two are well known in the United States. It makes little difference to me whether bowhunters from other countries hunt over here, since I neither own a game ranch nor am I a outfitter or a PH. In fact, the more international bowhunters visit the country, the harder it is for local hunters to find ranches to hunt on. And if I had the time and the money, I would hunt in the unfenced areas of Africa myself.

Offline hunt it

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Re: Possible to Self Guide in SA?
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2005, 01:14:00 PM »
Thanks, Howling Moon.

You are correct in saying that I did not say that all you guys did this. Nor do I wish to slam South Africa, it is without a doubt the most beatiful Country in which I have travelled. And I am aware that the majority of hunters there are ethical, no different than here, a few leave a bad taste for the rest of us to clean up. I do and will continue to send hunters to South Africa to both bow hunt and gun hunt. Once they are informed of all the facts, I leave it up to my clients to choose from a number of operators and countries as there are many excellent choices and South Africa is the right place for many first time African hunters. The majority of these cases of light usage that I know of have been compound users. I find the Traditional gang much more into the hunt and the animal rather than the record book. The book seekers tend to be the ones that will stray more often. Like anywhere, the hunt is what you put into it and we all have different levels of effort. Any trip to Africa is a great one, life is too short enjoy it while you can.
hunt it

Offline Howling Moon

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Re: Possible to Self Guide in SA?
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2005, 01:30:00 AM »
Well said, Hunt It. I have also found that traditionalists prefer hunting the hard way. We have one or two renegades over here, but most of them believe in fair chase. I believe traditionalists are bow lovers and hunting is a secondary motive, while most compound hunters are hunters who use a bow as just another means to get their prey.Or they start of that way at first, anyway. It is just a notion though, and based on no facts.

Offline The Dutchman

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Re: Possible to Self Guide in SA?
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2005, 11:29:00 AM »
Hi Howling Moon and Hunt it, I thankyou for the debate and am glad to see that this subject resolved in an orderly manner and as both agreed, one always find those who will stop at naught to get the beacon, but luckily they are in the minority,
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