Shot Placement

[Trad Lad]

Ok, this post is to any or all who have been there and harvested animals anywhere in Africa with a recurve or longbow. I will finally make the much awaited trip to Melaroni in June of 09 so my preparation still gives me a year of anticipation. My biggest question right now is "shot placement". I have read many articles and seen, I think, all of the videos and DVDs including all of Dries Visser's and I understand the shot placement on African game in general is farther to the front and even a bit lower than what is considered the kill zone on our Whitetail and other US species. However, in all of the videos, I have seen many, many shots that appear to be very typical for the type of game that we shoot, could I get some verification for better understanding on the subject. In all of the videos even the way back shots are recovered but I know that is not the "real world". The last thing any of us want to do is wound an animal and lose it, especially in Africa.
Oh, and lastly, I do have "The Perfect Shot" by Kevin Robertson, that I look at frequently.
Thanks for your replys.
Pip

[LEOPARD]

Hi Pip,

I haven't hunted in the USA, so I don't know your species very well. But I was born and raised in Africa, so I know the species there quite well.    I've also spent A LOT of time working on a safari operation, and from what MAJORITY of the American clients that I hunted with, said that the kill zone on African game is a lot lower and further forward than your American species.
On another note, you mentioned that most of the "way back" or "bad" shots shown on videos were recovered. Yes this is true in most cases, BUT what they probably don't mention on the video is that it took a team of 4 trackers, 1 PH, the client, and most likely a dog or two 3-4+ hours to recover the animal (say a Wilderbeest shot thru the liver). African game is VERY tough and a badly placed shot can easily result in a very long follow up or even loss of the animal!
Another thing, with all do respect to Kevin Robertson and his work, I don't like his recommended shot placement. For me personally, with all my experience hunting in Africa, I would NOT shoot the game where he recommends! I think that his books show a good anatomy of the game, but I wouldn't shoot it where he recommends. I personally believe that most of his shot recommendations are often too far back and high. Another book that I would recommend, if you can get hold of it in the USA, is "Shot Placement Pocket Field Guide" that is published by African Hunter Magazine. It's a really nice compact field anatomy guide for African game.
I hope that this has helped in some way. I hope you have a fun and successful hunt next year! Good luck!    

Nigel

[Wile E. Coyote]

From my limited personal experience and what I've seen, straight up from the elbow on the meat of the triceps muscle, where the hint of a forward triangle starts and you won't go wrong on any of the game.

Good Luck and enjoy your trip.

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

I totally concur with Nigel and Wayne. Both are 'spot on'.

It's clear that Nigel has experience with this, from the PH/guide side of things. My experiences were exactly the same; most US hunters - with either bow or rifle - place their shots way too far back and too high. I also concur on his opinion of Kevin's shot placements. They are often not the shot placement I would try for, nor the one I would recommend to our clients.

Wayne has it right for a broadside shot. Come straight up the leg. Try to hit into the 'meat' part of the shoulder, just above the ball joint. This “shot placement of choice” does place you closer to the heavy bones of the shoulder, and is a big reason you should be concerned about a setup that handles heavy bone, to the best of your ability.

I think one reason there are a lot of poorly placed shots shown on videos is because the shooters are very concerned about staying away from the heavy bones, for fear that the arrow they are using will not perform well if the bone is hit. Considering some of the setups I’ve seen being used on some of the videos, the concern is fully justified too!

Remember that any animal you draw blood on is an animal you must pay for. Some 'operators' (I cringe to call them PH's), especially a few operating on some of the game farm hunts, like their clients to use very big and/or multiblade broadheads. They are more concerned that there be a bit of blood on the ground than they are in whether your setup is the one capable of best killing the game cleanly, or for dealing with a possible hard bone hit. All they need to do to collect their fee for the animal is be able to show you a bit of blood from the shot. They THINK such setups help produce 'showable blood' more often, and "Showable Blood" = BIG $.

Africa is a magical place. Have a great time on your hunt!  

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow

[Trad Lad]

Leopard & Dr. Ashby,
Thank you both for your insite on placement. I will cettainly take heed to you suggestions. I was pretty sure about the shot placement and I was well aware that a poor hit animal on any continent increases the percentage of loss greatly. What you both taught me is not to heed the suggested placement in "The Perfect Shot". Now that I am reviewing it some of the shots do look like a bit of a reach. Shooting a traditional bow I will focus on shooting short distances and stay tight to the vitals of lung and heart.
Also thanks for the advice on the book by The African Hunter, not sure how to look here but I will give it a try. Do either of you have any suggestions on other hunting videos that I might be able to acquire?
Thanks again to all for your concern and assistance. The anticipation continues.
Pip

[LEOPARD]

Pip,

I can't think of any DVD's off hand. Most of Dries Visser's are pretty good tho.
One bit of advice that I was given as a kid growing up and learning where to shoot African game, it's also advice that I give newbie African hunters is: Go straight up the front leg, about a 1/3 of the way up the body, and you can't go wrong on most of the African game.

Here's a link to "Shot Placement Pocket Field Guide" on Amazon.com. I'm not sure if this is allowed, so moderators, feel free to remove it if it is in bad taste...
 http://www.amazon.com/Shot-Placement-Pocket-Field-Guide/dp/B00161K31S/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208516068&sr=1-2

Another thing I would recommend, is to talk to you PH about ordering and having back orders of "Africa's Bowhunter & Archer" delivered to your PH's P.O. Box. If you get the back orders, they're really cheap, roughly $2-$3 per a magazine, and they're pretty good to read while you're sitting in the hide. You'll also learn quite a bit about various African game from them. Just ask your PH if this is ok, get his address, and order them online with a credit card.  http://www.africasbowhunter.com/

I hope this has helped!

Nigel

[Trad Lad]

Nigel,
Thanks again for the great insight. I will try all your suggestions. I especially like the one about the magazines sent to the PH waiting for me. If you have any other insight please feel free to send an e-mail or I will watch this post for a while.
Good hunting.
Pip

[LEOPARD]

You're welcome Pip! If I think of anything else, I'll chime in a let you know!  

Nigel

[Snakeeater]

Pip,

Barry or Gene Wensel did a review of an excellent pocket guide, it might be the one mentioned above. They might know where to get a copy since Amazon seems to be out of it. I think there may also be a video version of it.

You can find the profiles for Barry and Gene using the directory link at the top of the page. Once you find their profile you can send them an email or PM.

Good luck,

Larry

[sparrow]

Pip,
 I have only been to Africa once but I'll share what I learned. Patience is a virtue greatly rewarded. You should have lots of opportunities so wait for a great one. Very slightly quartering away gives a small margin from heavy bones. You may hit the off shoulder but only after passing thru both lungs. I shot 675 grain arrows from a 54# longbow with 2 blade Magnus and had no penetration problems and quick recoveries on two impala, two kudu, zebra and wildebeest. I lost no animals. 1/3 up and tight is great advice no matter what or where you are hunting. Don't be intimidated, they are only flesh and blood. Pick a spot and you'll do great. Good luck.

[Jeff Sample]

Pip/Larry,

I believe that the pocket guide you are speaking of is sold by 3 Rivers.

[Trad Lad]

Jeff and all,
Thanks for the information Jeff, but that is the book in the post by Leopard that he isn't in agreement with as far as shot placement (neither is Dr. Ashby)and I have that book, the one I am looking for is the on one published by "The African Hunter" magazine.
To you others, Sparrow and Larry I appreciate all of your input and will certainly head your advise. I will check on Wensel's to see if they can tell me where it is available as I did check Amazon and they said it was not avaialble.

[tradtusker]

all the good advise you need has been given, its realy up to your preference and gear, for the smaller stuff i like broadside and i like to hit tight and low and dont mind breacking the shoulder and for the bigger game i like quatering away shots.
i work on the rule of;

"STRAIT UP THE FRONT LEG, 1/3 WAY UP THE BODY" broadside

hope you have a great time keep us up to date on what you do

cheers Andy

[Biggie Hoffman]

Can't add much to what Nigel said but the most difficult thing for me, being a lifelong whitetail hunter, was picking a spot on the "shoulder" (which isn't actually the shoulder but the spot above the legbones that go forward.)

I shot 7 critters with 7 arrows. 6 went down in sight and the other went 150 yards. 55# longbow w/3 blade razorcaps.

[Hogtamer]

Hey Biggie, I've got an arrow I made to your specs I'll try to get to you soon.  There's a pig somewhere begging to see it.

[storm5]

Hope this help.
 http://www.kznhunters.co.za/site/PropertyCatalogue.asp?Cat=206

[Scott J. Williams]

Dr. Ashby,

     Would you agree, that most hunters would be better off by placing their shots on game in the states, in the same way they should in Africa?

     I know the hogs here require that type of shot, but I have harvested a number of deer, short well defined blood trails with that type of shot.

      Maybe we should adopt that practice here also.

[Jeff Sample]

In my experience with deer, 1/3 straight up from the leg (i.e., in what most consider the "meat of the shoulder") hits either the heart or arteries coming out of/into heart as well as some lung, and they go down extremely fast, usually 30-40 yards. I love this shot where I hunt in NY, where land parcels are relatively small. Because, a double-lunged deer can go upwards of 200 yards, especially if spooked by the shot/hit. He may be a dead deer running, but going that far can put him onto adjacent property that I do not have permission to enter! Also nice to see or hear them go down, especially at the very end of shooting hours. I don't care how cold it is, a deer left in the woods overnight, because you are not sure if he went down for good after an end-of-the-day shot, is some rough eating!

[cch]

After hunting Africa and hitting my animals strait up the leg and how fast they went down I have adopted to shooting animals here in the same place and I have found like Jeff that the animals fall with in sight or at least hear them go down. I even shot a little far forward on a blacktail doe a couple of years ago and hit the bone that goes from the leg to the shoulder joint and broke it and she went down in sight also. I think more people should aim for this and we would not have so many gut shots that people say are good hits and they loose the animal.