bleeder or no bleeder blades for razorheads

[Brent Hill]

All of this silly talk about going to africa has got me crazed again.  On my last trip, I was packed 2 months before we left.  I just booked for 2010 and plan to use my 50 lb bob lee and  30 in 55-75 gt with about 300 upfront for a total arrow weight of 600 (old lime green razorheads with 125 steel insert or 145 grain blue razorheads with 150 grain weights behind the insert). This set up flies like a dart. On my last trip, I used the same broadhead but with 29 inch 35-55 gt with 250 grains up front for a total 540 grains.  My outfitter requested that I use the bleeder blades to get more of a blood trail but I never got a pass through on any of my monsters.  I'm changing my arrow choice to get more weight and penetration for this next trip.  I plan to shoot my bob lee with a string tracker unit that I use during whitetail season.  The unit works well for tracking pigs and deer here so I want to give it a whirl.  I'm curious whether I should use the bleeder blades or not and how that will affect penetration.  Any thoughts.  Thanks Bhill

[Joseph]

I would use the bleeders and not worry about getting a pass through.  If you arrow makes it to the far side ribs it has accomplished everything it is going to do. Joseph

[Brent Hill]

Thank you for your response.  My concern is that on the Kudu,  I only got 10 to 12 inches of penetration and may have not gotten to the other side.  How would that work on a gemsbok or zebra other larger plainsgame excluding an eland.  I am also curious if anyone else used bleeder blades with a 2 blade broadhead (regardless of the brand) or if most used a 2 blade w/o. Bhill

[Trad Man 25]

Hay Brent,
I got a bunch for Zwickys with Bleeders and they were grad A , Top Notch Waste of time. Zwickys rock, but not with Bleeders.


As for the outfitters, Unless he shoots Trad better then you do, dont litsten to them. Your the one paying for the trip not him.


I read that your going to be using a string tracker unit????

James

[Brent Hill]

The string tracker Model 2500 that I use is  made by eastmans and some people use it for turkey hunting.  It uses a 17 lb test nylon line that usually stays with the animal as long as there is either a pass through or the arrow remains in the animal assuming the string doesn't break.  If the arrows falls out withou passing through (rare) or the line breaks, then I blood trail.  I'm not that good at trailing my own animals and regardles of how well the shot is, I'm usually sick and nausous until I can see the animal down Over the past 3 years, the string only broke one time on a doe that I didn't make the best of shots on.  I'm still pining over that.  Other than that, the unit has worked well even with our thick briars and mesquite.   Thanks, Bhill

[ozy clint]

for blood trails, 2 holes are better than 1. go for the extra penetration. the broadhead cant cut what it hasn't passed though. no good putting a 4 blade cut in one lung when a two blade may well have put a 2 blade cut in both.  

say a 4 blade penetrates 10". and a 2 blade of the same cut diameter penetrates 20". both have done the same amount of cutting but the 2 blade has twice the oppurtunity of cutting vital organs.

just the oppinion of a 2 blade fan.

the problem with my argument is that 2 bladers dont consistently get twice the penetration, if they did nobody would use 4 bladers. food for thought though.

[tradtusker]

bleeder blades or not both will work!
you could shoot bleeders at the smaller stuff and without bleeders and the bigger stuff like eland.

as with James about we Tested a bunch of Zwickeys with the bleeders and they where Bad.

String tracker should be fun there let me know how it works. might be a bit of fun getting it out of thorn trees, be interesting to see what the Black Trackers think of it.

Keep us updated

[Brent Hill]

Thanks for your input, I will gladly report back to you on my trip.  I wish I could figure a way to get there quicker.  As for the thorn trees, we have tons of them in Texas.  The string tracker does get caught up in the trees and thorns but with exception to the one deer I talked about above, It held up well.  

I think I'm going to use the 2 blade without the bleeders but bring the bleeders just in case.

I'm having one of those days at work when I need to go to my happy place with a curve in hand, thats Africa.  I'm feeling a little better now.  South Africa reminded me so much of South Texas, the brush, the dirt and sky, the Afrikaner's never surrender attitude about work and life, I loved it.  Okay, I'm going back to the grind to pay for the next international therepy session.  Thanks, Bhill

[redant 60/65]

Brent
Sounds like you may have already left to go hunting. But I'm big on Magnus 4- blade Stingers they cut going in and cut pulling out. Good luck.  

[Brent Hill]

Thanks, I'm only hunting in my dreams today.  But theres always tomorrow or at least turkey season.  I used to shoot stingers, great heads.  Bhill

[longbow2364]

Zwickeys are great heads, but I don't like their bleeder blade system (they are cut out of the taper) cut your own slot and use bear bleeder blades, they are super thin and will break or bend if they hid a bone. I use them and have a lot better blood trail than with the standard Delta.

[JF]

I would use bleader on any thing under 500#,   I mutch prefer pass throughs. John

[philip140]

''I would use bleader on any thing under 500#''
good luck pulling back on that bow!

Phil

[Johan van Niekerk]

Living in South Africa and being on the committee of our local bowhunting club I can safely say I know more experienced bow hunters of african game than most... I do not know of ANY trad hunters here who would use bleeders.
In fact, apart from a few guys who use simmons sharks I think 90% of the guys shoot zwikeys.
If your b/h is sharp enough bleeding is not a problem (except on warthog, they almost never leave good blood  :(  ).
If you want to ensure a passthrough, more weight is always good. If you hit that same kudu with an extra 100grains that same arrow might have gone right through  

[eugeneb]

This warthog had no issues leaving blood (hope I did the image posting thing corrently)

 

Entrance wound below
 

Exit wound below
 

Got lungs and heart ...
 

Blood trial (3 yards from where I arrowed it
 

 

Ex South African ... now 18 months in Aus (Darwin) ... obviously it was not a 2 blader ... I was elevated above the pig and it was slightly quatering towards me ... 13 yard shot

[Johan van Niekerk]

Hehe..which is why I said ALMOST never leave good blood. I've had some leave buckets, and other leave NONE. It's not even necessarily related to shot placement. I've shot a HUGE boar, 97 kg's, perfect top of the heart bottom of the lungs, clean pass through. Had zero blood for almost 300 meters and then found him dead just before the hole (without a good dog I would never have found him), had the same basic shot placement on a 2-3 year old sow and she bled more than any other animal I've ever shot. Literally a trail of blood...
???
go figure...Now what I would LOVE to know is whther the bowhunting in Oz id any good?    I'm going to Brisbane later this year and would LOVE to squeeze in a hunt.

[eugeneb]

Hi Johan,
Hoop dit gaan goed met jou!  (genoeg Afr ... netnou gooi hulle my van die forum af)
I'm in Aus for approx 18 months and based in Darwin (Northern Territory) = tropics ... the bow hunting scene in Aus is definitely bigger than I thought.  I have not yet hunted ... only picked up my bow recently … will try to shoot a buff this dry season  … I am approx 3500km from Brisbane … Aus is HUGE … SA approx 22% the size of Aus … Aus divided into several “states” and I cannot comment on Brisbane area (QLD) … each seems to have slightly diff legislation around things.  Think NT alone is about 70% the size of SA. (guesstimate)   You do not need to have license/permit for compound or trad bow!  The info is based on my limited perceptions … as said only now trying to get into the bow hunting scene.
The main diffs I personally found is that:
1) animals in SA are all on private land opposed to Aus there are big areas where they roam free … i.e. a permit in NT for boars will cost me around $20 for 12 months and I can go and hunt them whenever I feel in certain areas.  Obviously you also get privately owned ranches here e.g. cattle;
2) the animals here seems to be divided into indigenous (like the wallaby/kangaroo/crocs), which you are not allowed to hunt, and non-indigenous (also referred to as feral) … according to my knowledge (related to NT) the feral animals (boar, water buff, scrub bulls, etc.) there is no hunting season like in SA and if you get a permit you can go and hunt them … some areas are classified as traditional land, which belongs to Aboriginal people and you need a special permit to hunt there … also does not seem to difficult to get;
3) the species obviously takes getting used to (besides water buff and boar, which somehow I can relate to Africa) there are a variety of other species of deer/antelope (I assume “imported” at some stage), wild camels, donkeys, scrubb bulls as it is called=to me it looks like domestic cattle gone wild/feral … make no mistake according to the locals they are NASTY
In general I think hunting is more accessible and could be done easier/more affordable, with a better all over hunting experience (eg. You can out to the bush, camp and hunt if you like on “no-mans-land” so to speak … in certain areas) … alternatively you can also make use of an outfitter with concessions, which is somewhat pricy.  One of my friends from Brisbane sent me this picture … assuming this boar is from Aus … I wouldn’t mind arrowing one of those … altogether I think the experience will be what you make of it.  The bowhunting fraternity seems to be friendly people, same as in SA … although I think you do get “bow gods” everywhere.  The good news is also Aus seems to have a problem with the hogs, in the sense that their numbers are becoming plague related (last figure I researched was estimated around 19 million and counting)
As said I’m new to this scene and these are just my general perceptions.

 

[Johan van Niekerk]

Dankie Eugene  

Dis presies wat ek wou weet. I'll definately have to look into doing a bit of hunting whilst there. I love the idea of going hunting/camping on "nomansland". Here there is no such thing.

[eugeneb]

Yip ... to be honest I do not know anywhere in Southern Africa where you can just go and camp/hunt on "no-mans-land" so to speak ... I've been to Zambia, Tanzania, Namibia and Botswana ... not sure about Mozambique & Zim, but I think you still need to go through a guide/outfitter that will have own property or have permit/consession of some sort ... in any case even if you could hunt Moz and Zim in nomansland ... I do not think there will be much game left if it is not protected by private farms or gov parks ;-)