Filing images

[Steve Kendrot]

Reading Dave's recent Nikon V Canon post reminded me how many talented photogs hang out here so I'd like to ask a question about image filing.

I recently bought a 200 GB external drive to store my images. Before I move all my images over there, I want to have a sensible file structure and naming convention set up. I have begun keywording and captioning all my images and plan to use Adobe Bridge to manage my images (since it came with CS2). I;ve done a bunch of research on line about this subject, but have not come away with a clear picture of a method that would work for me. What to you pro's who accumulate lots of pictures do? I started to file in subject related folders, but quickly decided that was not going to work.

So my questions are:

How do you name your image files?
What kind of file structure do you use to file your images?
Do you file RAW images and edits seperately? If so how?
Do any of you create folders for shooting sessions, Date, etc?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! Tx.

Steve

[Phil Magistro]

I'll try to keep this short. When I first download the photos I put them in a "Photos" folder in My Documents.  I create a folder for each shoot using the date and a key word or phrase to jog my memory such as "070228 Smith Wedding".  Within that folder I keep the numbering that came out of the camera. After I review the photos I save the ones that I want to process into another subfolder.  Depending on the topic (usually wedding proofs) I may rename them at this point using CKRename (shareware), or I may keep the original name.  Most times when I rework a photo I'll save it with the same name and attach an "a" or "b" to the end.  For example, if the original photo (raw or jpeg) is PWM_8742, I may name it PWM_8742a when I've reworked it.  If I save it in a lower resolution for the web or email I will typically save it as PWM_8742a_72dpi so I can find it quickly.  

I do use keywords on images that I will be looking for again such as an elk photo, a sunset, etc.

And I back everything up redundantly.  I have two external drives that I automatically back up every two nights using Windows Task Scheduler.  Plus I burn a DVD for each shoot.  I learned the hard way with a disk failure two years ago.    :(

[Steve Kendrot]

Thanks Phil. I should've planned from the beginning, but I didn't understand how much time would be spent in front of the computer. I now have a couple thousand images to refile. Of course, I haven't culled them yet either, and once I do I susect I'll only have a dozen or so to keep! And those for memory's sake....

Steve

[Tim Schoenborn]

Your getting pretty much what you need to hear from Phil.

It really depends on a lot of things. For instance when we shoot a large horse show we zero our cameras out. Meaning we start the show at a certain number and keep everything in a numeric progression. We might shoot as many as 6000 or so images in 2 weeks. So doing this is a must.

We always dump content in 2 locations before we clear cards also. Then as Phil mentioned you need to create folders of events and then burn at least 1 DVD if not 2. I am in a little bit of a different position as all my images must be ready and available for sale even after a year or more after the shoot.

Keywords and the "A" "B" principle is a good idea also in regards to image size and quality. Although I shoot RAW and the first thing I do once I open an image in Photoshop is to duplicate the layer and that way I always have kept an untouched original which I will never touch.

I can't even to begin to tell you how I feel about shooting in RAW for to many reasons to list. Remember everything you do to a JPEG including rotating or any keystroke at all degrades the image. That is never an issue with RAW. It just takes a pretty heavy machine to be able to process the files.

I also back everything up on external drives. I use Lacie externals which have proven over a long period of time to be as bombproof as they get. I know lots of people who use them and their opinions are pretty much the same. Plus they are not that expensive.

I use Photoshop in conjunction with ACR  and Bridge and it flows well and gets the job done

One other thing just as a bit of advice is to just cull out your junk. I see a lot of guys who have a tendency to hold onto pictures that are not worth keeping. I had a professor in college once tell me the difference between a Pro and an Amateur is the Pro only shows you his good stuff.

I hope this helps as the answers on this topic could make a book as thick as a local yellow pages and just like Photoshop there are 10 different ways to do anything and get the same results.

Tim      

 www.timschoenborn.com

[Steve Kendrot]

Thanks Tim! Very helpful. I've done a lot of searching on the web and your and Phil provided more helpful info. I have not been culling until recently. By the time I'm done, I could probably fit everything on a 3.5" floppy. I am using ADobe CS2 and adobe bridge too. I find bridge to be exceedingly slow when switching between folders. Have you noticed it is slow? My laptop has a pretty decent processor as I configured it to run GIS software.

BTW, last year at the Baltimore Traditional shoot, I took a bunch of pictures of the Pony Bow demo. Given you're love for horses and bows, I wonder if you've ever shot them? If so, I'd love to see them. I captured memories, but not much for good images.

Thanks for the tips!

Steve

[Phil Magistro]

I do most of my work on a laptop with a 17" monitor attached.  It's a 1.60GHz with 2GB RAM.  CS2 and Bridge can bring my system to it's knees when I'm working with 300dpi images.  That's part of the reason I use Nikon Capture NX - because it deals with RAW files much better.

Phil

[Tim Schoenborn]

Yes, computer issues are a problem in regards to file sizes............

This is a situation that you have to ask yourself what works best for you in particular. Work flow is sort of an independent thing that you have to do what works for you in getting the final product. Bridge is a little slower than some of the other software and plug ins available at this time. I am a MAC guy and even have some slowdown on a dual 2 gig G5 with 8 Gigs of RAM. I just live with it as I am really happy with how the whole thing works.

This is why it is my opinion among many others that the pixel race is basically over. For a few years everyone was jumping to get ahead in sensor sizes and CCD"s in order to have the largest file sizes based on the Mega Pixels of a given camera. Today it is about getting more out of the camera with what we have vs the race to get larger. I really think it will settle in around the 10 to 15 MP and just continue to get better although right now I think they are a little stuck where they are at even in regards to that.

When I shoot RAW my individual file sizes are at about 20MB a piece. So depending on the job I will quickly go through the RAW files in bridge and then select the images I am going to use to sell to a client or keep and then open them up in ACR throw a quick crop on them and then save them as a full Resolution JPEG in the print size that I am going to need. I then create a duplicate layer on that image and either go to work or create a new folder to save the images as High Res JPEGS for the lab and go back later to finish them up. So when I am done selecting images I am leaving bridge alone and just working in Photoshop which flies through any given size JPEG.  If and when you have Photoshop make sure you also allocate the proper percentage of your systems memory to be used to run it also. Allocate about 70%.

Like I mentioned in my earlier post you will rarely find 2 people who do the post processing the same way. It is a very personal decision that you have to make and be comfortable with. If you are comfortable with it then it will net better end results which is what the whole thing is about anyway.

One thing I always tell guys who are getting started in this stuff is to try to take a  "9" through the camera and then make the image a "10". Don't take a "6" and try the same thing. All the post processing and computer software in the world can't make up for taking the image correctly to start with.

Hope this helps and sorry if it creates even more confusion............

Tim              

 www.timschoenborn.com

[paleFace]

Steve,  like Phil the first thing i do after a shoot before i even view the images is to burn a master copy of the shoot and file it away for no other purpose than safety. once i have the master burned i copy all the files onto my hard drive in a folder named for the shoot. (ex. 2006Africa).

once i have them on my hard drive i open them up using Bridge and do my editing. any images that don't cut the mustered are deleted. then i make a second pass being even more critical deleting even more files. i will actually zoom in to 100% and if the images is not close to tack sharp it's history.

once i have only the images left that i think i will want i do a batch rename on those files. (ex. 060704Africa_001) using the year, month,day then shoot and finally the image number from 001 - ???. if i shoot more than one day at a location i will name the files for the day as above.

once i start working on a specific image that i want to print i will add a new folder in the main folder that is labeled print. the only images i put in this folder are images that i am going to print. also like Phil when i re-work an image for print i will add the letter "p" at the end (ex. 060710Africa_001p). if i do it for the web i will add the letter "w" at the end.

this might eat up a little more room on the hard drive but it makes for a lot easier access IMO. once i have finished editing and working with all the images i will burn a 2nd disc of just the master images that i saved in the batch rename and then i will delete those off the hard drive and just leave the image i worked for print and web to free some space back up.

    first thing I do once I open an image in Photoshop is to duplicate the layer and that way I always have kept an untouched original which I will never touch.
I can't even to begin to tell you how I feel about shooting in RAW for to many reasons to list. Remember everything you do to a JPEG including rotating or any keystroke at all degrades the image. That is never an issue with RAW. It just takes a pretty heavy machine to be able to process the files.

this is probably one of the best pieces of advice in this entire thread. very critical. once you make changes you have lost the data for good. another good reason to make the master disc.

this gets into a little more depth but you can actually go into each images meta data and give them labels and name to help with a search years  down the road if needed.

as for computer useage one thing you can do to help a little is to have an empty external hard drive that you will use just as a scratch disc. if you go under the edit menu in photoshop then down to the bottom of that drop down you will see preferences and from there "plug-ins & scratch disc".  select your empty external hard drive as the main scratch disc. if your computer is doing actions in photoshop slow so that you are waiting on the hour glass all the time this should help that out.

one last thing that i have found to be very valuable in my editing is the use of a "wacom tablet". once you learn how to use this piece of equipment you will forget there was ever a thing called a mouse.

ok, just one more thing! as mentioned above several times, you have to learn how to be extremely critical of your images and if it doesn't give you warm and fuzzies hit the delete key. this will save you a lot of head aches and hard drive space.

[Steve Kendrot]

Thanks Rob. Glad I checked in on this old thread. I am in the process of trying to go through my images and refile them. Pain in the butt. I am implementing a similar filing strategy to yours.

On another note, my boss bought a new Canon 5D this week and now I want a new camera too!

[paleFace]

camera lust is almost if not as bad as bow lust. the 5D is a great tool and i'm a nikon shooter if that says anything.  i was hoping Jerry (weasel) would post on this thread. always nice to see how others are doing things. good luck on that new camera!