THE BIG QUESTION?

[elkbow]

i was on here earlier and as thoughts about the differant posts and replies came to mind,the big question hit me,did we create our own monsters?for example:the midge,what is it and where did it come from? 2)deer management,have we engineered a super deer with un-natural feed,suppliments? what i'm trying to say is that with advanced technology comes advanced problems.it seems that the things that we (man)try to improve,we destroy.anytime we alter the natural environment with un-natural agents what long term effects are we creating for wildlife and what is it doing to future genetic traits,not only for that species but in its entire food chain?i don't consider myself an environmentalist but it makes us all wonder at times do we really know what we're doing.do we create disease accidentally and then have to invent something to treat the symptoms?Holly Crap,i need an aspirin after all that!

[laddy]

I like environmentalists, they quite often have an understanding of the natural world that others do not.  Anyone who has ever experienced the beauty of pristine wilderness whether it is the high country, alaska or the virgin forest lake country of the north wants to keep it the way it is.  An explosion of animal populations whether it is deer or Norway rats is a sign of a system that is in some way wrong, although no one would complain if norway rats tasted better.

[Scott J. Williams]

Elkbow,

     You and I have shared the same thoughts.  In this age of chasing the biggest, and the best, have we watered down the pursuit totally?  I mean shooting a 150 inch deer, twenty years ago was a greater feat than doing it on a property managed to grow those deer.

      I happend to believe that most hunters are enviormentalist.  I happen to believe that many so called enviormentalist are off base, not because they are enviormentalist, but because they have a political agenda.  

       Just because a person blocks a chain saw to stop the cutting of trees, does not an enviormentalist make.   The desire to protect and preserve must be balanced with science, not emotion, fact not supposition.

       I may have gotten off the point, but bare with me, I will attempt to bring it all together shortly.

     The supplemental feeding of game, to provide more protein for anlter and body growth is not endangering the future genetics of deer.  It is providing for greater numbers of deerin some places, as the carrying capacity of the land is no longer in the equation. Some view this as bad.  This will only be a problem if, there are not sufficient numbers harvested off that piece of land, or if the landonwer, for whatever reason, stops the supplemental feeding.  I have seen the die-offs, not a pretty sight at all.

     I happend to believe that man's place in the grand scheem of things in nature, was detailed in the Bible.  Nature is loaned to us, to take care of,  we will be judged on how well we take care of it.  Judgement can be swift, if we abuse that right.  Dust Bowl, Flooding, etc...the lists goes on and on.

     Let's face it,  we all love big deer, and most of us would not walk away from a chance to place our tag on one.  I think we are reaching a point where it will all come back and bite us in the you know what.  

     Follow the money, if there is big money in killing big deer, somebody will grow big deer.  If there is big money in selling "space bows" with wheels, and release adds, then somebody will sell them.  We are a fast food society, we want it now, and we don't want to have to work at very hard to get it.  Many want praise for what they do,  while I like bowhunting DVDs and shows, bowhunting is not now, nor was it intended to be a spectator sport.

     There are ethics, and there is conviction. The two can be part of the same, but very different.  I may be within the law to hunt a certain way, therefore legal and ethical.  Yet, I may have personal convictions that would not allow me to hunt that way.

      Part of that can be, or is at least with me, deals with the challenge.  I practice a lot, I practice hard, I hone my tracking skills, I sharpen my woodsmanship skills, I learn as much about the prey as I can.  I work to get really close, I spend time in the woods year around.  

      Here is where I attempt to bring it all back into persective.  We as traditional hunters, have choosen the path less traveled, and the hard way of doing it.  Just because others choose a different, sometimes easier way in no way requires we do the same, nor will our goal be the same.  That will be true, even when we are all looked upon as being bowhunters.

       In point of fact, we will continue to hold the line, remain that link to the past, not for selfish reasons, not to show off, and not because we are better than anyone else.  We will do it because, many of those wrapped up in the modern way, will grow tired of "business as usual".  It is human nature to seek a challenge to grow,  especially when things are "too easy".

       We will be there to welcome them with open arms, to guide them, to show them another way, of true enlightenment of full enjoyment of being a part of nature, no just a participant in it.

     Yes, we have made mistakes.  Gotten focused on the wrong things.  Praise God we still have places to hunt where the deer are deer, just the way they have been for thousands of years.  No high fences, no "Record Rack" feed.  We can chase them the way we want, making it as easy, within reason, or as hard as we wish.   I don't kill nearly as many deer a year as I did when I shot a compound.  I killed fewer with the compound bow than I did with my rifle, but the deer I take with my stick and string are treasured far more, and rightfully hold a more special place in my heart, even if they are not worthy of most peoples walls.  I guess that is why I can go home after a hard week of hunting, with an empty game pole, and have a smile on my face.  

     I have arrived at this place in my life that an empty game pole, or  a heavy one bring the same amount of joy to me.  The thrill of the chase, the chess game.  Give me  land with a few deer, a real bow in my hand, a quiver full of arrows, the time to hunt, a blue sky, cool temps, and the wind in my face.  Ghee!  I think I have found the treasure in the pleasure!

[laddy]

I think that anybody can easily get off course from politcal agendas.  the problem is, everyone sees their own view as the only correct one.  We must all guard against brain washing and remember that there is a science to this game management and land management.  Profits and political advocacy can often facilitate hidden agendas that pry good thinking people away from objective reasoning.  Just because we agree with one idea from one group that does not mean we cannot express our differences on other ideas.  The fear of program ostracism, the fear of not being part of the body, has gotten many bad ideas forced into the minds of good people.  I believe that is why some hunters so quickly get defensive and some soft hearted  people so easily fall for Peta BS.

[Brian Krebs]

I A-G-R-E-E W-I-T-H L-A-D-D-Y...

 

I do think we need to guard ourselves against brainwashing.

I was watching an interesting report on the generation that is entering the work force now.
They demand praise. They were raised that everyone in a contest gets an award; and a reward. They do not understand the work place; and there are now specialists going to employers to explain how to deal with these 'kids'.
 I did not expect a generation to enter the work force; and when critized for their work performance; to call their parents to have them: call their employer and complain.

 This is a generation that expects and demands results despite efforts. If you want something-you should be able to buy it; or demand it- and get it.

 I do not think the mentality of game farms; and deer grown for the wall; and equipment that does most of the work--- to be changing for the better ..any time soon.

 I do think that saying what we enjoy about traditional bowhunting is important; as we do here.

 I think it is our blessing that those of us that are really good at getting big bucks put out messages not about shooting big deer; but classics like the Wensels put out. Talking about the experience itself as a path to follow.

 I really keep thinking we need to do more in that way. Even if it is making an organized program to buy and give away the Wensels presentations.........  

[laddy]

Well, tomorrow the kids go back to there things.  We didn't get the buck I have been holding out for a good look at, sort of, I missed his brother twice.  My disability kicked me in the butt this year, still I had numerous opportunities, all on the ground.  The fall was such nice weather, that I didn't feel like shooting anything until it got cold.  I had no negative run ins with other hunters, helped some bird watchers find a pair of red belly woodpeckers to photograph.  It's been a good season and I may get out again, but it sucks being alone in the house until spring.  We had lots of birds of prey around us this year, bow hunters trad and otherwise and birdwatchers all got excited about falcons and gold eagles feeding on pheasants and squirrels one day.  Standing around drinking shared coffee telling everyone, what each saw that morning, proved to me that bow hunters are environmentalists at heart, they just don't admit it.  Did you ever watch a pair of golden eagles flush pheasants with a prairie falcon picking up the fliers? WOW!

[elkbow]

on my way home from work last night i was listening to a radio talk show in cincinatti,i guess the people around the city was complaining about the damage inflicted from the deer overpopulation in the suburbs,to make a long story short,a lot of the people were feeding the deer so they could watch them,once they stopped feeding the deer they figured the deer would just go back to where they came from,they didn't,now they're in they're flower beds,gardens,ornamental trees,wandering around the neighborhood eating everything in sight,causing people to fear for the safety of their children,disrupting traffic,causing accidents,we've all heard it before.its a problem that nobody can fix now without some sort of conflict and expense to the taxpayer.
how do we have contact with wildlife without the negative impact we selfishly impose on them?