The Banning of the slaughter horse market

[Dark_Timber_Ghost]

Gentlemen,

What do you think the impact of banning the slaughter horse market will have on hunting?

Before we start, I am a horseman and love all aspects dealing with riding.  I team rope and generally think that they are the greatest animals on earth.  Some are dog people, some like cats; I feel the same about my horses.  I am not in horse for the money, just the sheer pleasure of riding while chasing a steer, spending time with the kids, or packing out an old mossy horn from the back country.

I have heard many say that if the market continues to be banned, they will just turn there grade (not registered horses or unsound) horses out on public land.  What are your thoughts on this?

I realize this is not the right thing to do and is generally irresponsible.  I would never do this or Condon it in any way.  I am just wondering what impact it would have on the environment.

[vermonster13]

Do a search of this forum and you will find a thread on wild horses and their impacts in the southwestern states in here already.

[Brian Krebs]

To get an elk out - or a deer out in rough country way back in; and do it in 90 degree heat ( you can loose your hunting license in several states if you violate game laws [waste of game] )  - takes either quite a few healthy hunters or one two pack animals.

 That relates this thread directly to bowhunting.
Even with a compound- Vermonster.    

 The people here this year - with hay prices going through the roof ( two years ago it was 90 a ton at tops - this last year it jumped to 200 a ton).
  .... are shooting their horses.....

Some horses come running right up to you; and you can grab the halter; and tie them up; and put a pack saddle on them; or a riding saddle; and off you go for a good days trip.

 Others will only be caught if they are cornered; and they kick; and bite and buck; and kill people.

 Then too; horses teeth grow until they have no more teeth. When their teeth wear out; unless you can get day old bread cheap; your horses 'time' is over.

 If a horse has an injury; and horses injure themselves like its a hobby- it may not effect the meat of the animal; but it can make it unsound for use.

 Horses go blind too ..

'We' USED to sell these horses for up to 70 to 90 cents a pound on the hoof: to the slaughter house.

 Now; you dig a trench; or take the horse to the dump where it is shot- and tossed in a pit.

 One neighbor here ran out of hay; could not find any hay; and shot all 23 of his horses. Another 6; another 3. Hay could not be found.

 And now the farmers are turning in the alfalfa fields to grow corn for ethanol. Cattle ranchers and people that have the cash will be bidding against each other; and everyone here thinks hay will probably- hit 250 a ton.

 So; your ability to find horses to take downed elk out of the woods is going to decrease. That effects us bowhunters.

 It is time to lift the ban. If people start letting their horses go into the wild; the wild horses will mingle and the inherent resistances to natural diseases etc will weaken the wild horses.

Its time to lift the ban.

[LKH]

The wild horse and burro protection has led to many poor environmental conditions.  They are not a native species and can really cause problems with sheep and other desert animals.  Like any grazing animal, their numbers must be controlled.

[Dark_Timber_Ghost]

Brian,

I agree with most everything you say with some minor differences.  Think about this...You stated that people are euthanizing their unwanted horses.  What happens when PETA or other tree hugging groups get involved and ban that?  Their is rumor about banning the killing of unwanted horses in MO. at this time.  They don't even want you to be able to put an animal down using a veterinarian.  What will we do with horses that are no longer sound?

LKH,

I agree that wild horses have to be managed just like any other animal.  They could cause significant damage to farmland and natural resources, but I do think they have a place in America and should be protected. We have a small herd in Southern Mo that is truly beautiful.  They are feral horses turned loose after the Great depression when people could not feed them and decided to just turn them loose.  If people start turning loose horses they can not feed today, what is the impact going to be?

[Dark_Timber_Ghost]

Vermonster13,

I am not talking of the impact that wild horses/burro's have on the environment.  I am talking about horse's that are currently on farms/ranches being used that go lame or lack confirmation to become usable stock.

[vermonster13]

Feral Horses are an invasive species in North America. To protect them takes protection away from native animals which is what DNRs should be concerned with. This type of "protection" is short sighted and destructive in both the short and long term. It is a feel good law for folks who have watched to many movies.

As operations find horses cost prohibitive which HSUS and PETA hope will happen, you'll have more land opened up to ATV and other motorized traffic which cause another set of problems.

[LKH]

They make good bear bait and you don't even have to pack them to the site.

[Brian Krebs]

LKH:
 First off I know that would be a black eye on bear baiters; and history proves it happened once.
 Second here in Idaho; you have to skin the horse out completely to use as bait.
 I figure ONE person runs into a skinned out horse in the woods; and the antis will use the picture for millions in donations.
 Third; you cannot leave a dead horse on forest service land. I know several people that had old horses die on pack trips ( I shoed horses for over a dozen years; I had a better chance at hearing some things). The forest service made them take them out of the woods.
  Releasing domestically raised animals out into the wild; and then allowing free running horses to be shot; well... that is kicking a hornets nest.
 Although wolves have kept the practice down; many outfitters and horsemen and women - will have a mare with a bell; called a 'bell mare'; and geldings. The geldings stay with the bell mare. So; what you do is let them wander off while your camping and they feed. When you want them ; you listen for the bell on the bellmare; and then go get her; and the geldings follow.
  If you had an open season on horses; and came upon that tranquil scene and opened fire - you might just end up in the last scene of your movie.
  Yep; horses and donkeys are foreign to this land after the original little guys showed up in horse form seen in fossils.
  But they have played a role since the spanish brought them here; and to try and derail the wild horse program at this point seems a bit stupid if we just allow slaughter houses to buy horses and ship them to countries like France where they eat them.
  One law creating a huge mess; and ugly ugly scenerios ......

[vermonster13]

The destruction they are causing in the southwest is a bit different than Idaho.

[Firstarrow]

Vermonster13,

so are you for or against the slaughter houses?

After the dimise of the slaughter house people in our neck of the woods sent dead animals to the rendering plant. In the last year they quit accepting them.

Leaves owners of large animals in a quandry.

[Brian Krebs]

Vermonster: I concede the damage done in the southwest is greater than the damage here. But there is damage; and control of the herds here too.

 Here we have auctions to sell off the donkeys; and horses; and even a mule once- but I concede that the program has a marginal sucess rate. Wild horses can be very hard to make into functional horses. Been there; doing that. I own two wild burros; and one half blm horse. Plus a few others...

 I certainly don't want to return to the pickup and rope with a tire on it era- and something indeed has to be done.

 But in the 'old days' if a wild horse could not be domesticated; they were sold at slaughter. Now its a gamble with no possible return if the horse does not work out.

[vermonster13]

There is no reasonable reason to not allow the slaughter of nonworking or feral horses. With the number of people going hungry in this world, if horse meat is a choice for some who are we to judge? A huge part of the world's population finds the eating of beef repulsive. When we start granting animals special protection by cuteness factor we don't do them any favors or us.

[Brian Krebs]

So; Vermonster - are you going to buy me an ice cream now we agree on something  

[vermonster13]

We agree a lot more then not Brian. Though it's been a while since we've talked on the phone. lol

[ChuckC]

Vermonster... you are very correct about the eating habits of our brothers and sisters around the world.  And by the way, horse meat tastes as good or better than beef.  

I travel a fair amount for my job with Uncle.  I have gotten to see, and eat, a lot of different things.  We do some things that are abhorent to some cultures and they return the favor.  

I see no reason, personally, to not let the carcases of horses be used for food if it is tasteful (pun intended) to the group receiving and gnawing on it.  I see a great deal of reason not to just let the carcases rot and go to waste (from a human perspective only).

In some countries they eat dogs and monkey meat.  OMG !  Not that !   Ever see skinned grilled rats on a skewer ?  

Some cultures eat about anything that they can catch and put in their mouths, and they do this to stay alive.  We are certainly spoiled in the USA.
ChuckC

[Brian Krebs]

 Vermonster