CROSSBOW BILL IN MICHIGAN.....ALERT!!

[fyrfyter43]

BTW, I'm not a big fan of compounds either. However, compounds are alot more in line with the spirit of the bowhunting seasons that were established many years ago than are crossbows.

Crossbows have been around alot longer than compounds. If they are such a good fit in the archery season, why weren't they included long before now?

[Tdog]

43 you make a good squeaky wheel...Let the rifle guys out the same time as me.I hunt right through gun season with the bow anyway. Eric maybe you'll get your way if you whine with a higher tone.Keep the faith..Divid and concor..

[fyrfyter43]

Originally posted by Tdog:
Let the rifle guys out the same time as me.I hunt right through gun season with the bow anyway.

So tell me...why can't the crossbow guys use their weapon of choice during the firearms season just as you and I both do with our traditional bows?

I haven't used a firearm since 1997, although I am thinking about going back to a muzzleloader. That decision is mostly because I enjoy shooting a flinter even more than a longbow. Since the archery season is quite a bit longer than the blackpowder season, maybe I should lobby to have my flintlock legalized during the archery season. Afterall, with the advent of the new inlines, my flinter is that much more of a primitive weapon, and I'm now handicapped during the muzzleloader season.

If you'll look back over many posts I've made on the subject of crossbows, you'll see that I have no problem with them being allowed during the firearms season. However, I don't believe that they have a place in the archery season. Just as I don't believe that inline rifles have a place in a "primitive" muzzleloader season.

If people wanted to hunt with a crossbow simply because it is their preferred weapon, they would have no problem with that. The ones lobbying for the inclusion of crossbows in the archery season are either in the pockets of the crossbow manufacturers, or those looking for a way to extend their hunting season without investing any "sweat equity" into bowhunting.

I have personally been bowhunting for more than 25 years, and with traditional bows for nearly 20 of those years. Crossbows were readily available even before I started bowhunting, at least from mail-order vendors such as Cabela's and Bass Pro Shops. Why was there no effort to include them into the bowhunting season until the past few years, other than in a couple of states?

Don't want to invest the time and effort required to be proficient enough with what is currently defined as a bow? Don't worry - we'll just change the definition so you won't feel left out. As of late, that has become the American way...

[Tdog]

Life is to short to worrie about people who want to hunt with crossbows or rocks or anything else.You should read your quoat by Saxton Pope because your miss the point. squeak..squeak...squeak..

[fyrfyter43]

So, Tdog, I guess you would be in favor of, let's say, a 2-week long season, during which the hunter could use any weapon of his choice, with the caveat that this is the only season during which hunting is allowed?

Afterall, that would be the best way to ensure that no one is left out. And that's the way we're heading by making sure that everybody could participate in the bowhunting season, without any dedication to the sport and the weapon.

[fyrfyter43]

When I first started hunting, no one in my family bowhunted. I didn't even know there was an archery season.

I enjoyed hunting so much that as soon as I found out that you could hunt from late September into November with a bow and arrow, I immediately asked my parents for a bow for Christmas.

Once Christmas came and I found that Ben Pearson compound under the tree, along with a half-dozen Easton GGs, I was out there shooting every day. From the time I got home from school until it was so dark I couldn't see my arrows hit the hay bales we had gotten from a farmer friend.

I shot like that for more than a year until I could increase my draw weight to the 35# minimum and get signed up for the first available bowhunter education course.

That fall I spent every single afternoon in the woods behind my parents' house, trying to find a deer to fling one of my arrows at. Even though I never got within 50 yards of a deer, I never gave up. I came home every night well after dark with a smile from ear to ear, and stayed up doing my homework so I would get the grades my parents expected of me. Lord knows, if my grades had slipped, my after school hunting would quickly come to an end.

A few years later, after a couple of kills with a compound, I decided that that was just not what bowhunting was meant to be. As fate would have it, the bow I was shooting that year came apart on me at full draw one evening. I literally stuffed it into the garbage can and went the next day to order my first longbow.

I'm at a point in my life now where I am lucky if I can hunt every Saturday. Even though I don't have the time to hunt, I still make the time to shoot often enough to keep my skills sharp should I have a few hours to slip away. I won't even consider hunting if I haven't shot recently. I owe it to the game I hunt to be at my best in the woods.

Do you honestly think that very many of the crossbow proponents are willing to make sacrifices like these to extend their hunting seasons? I don't. Most are looking for a way to add MONTHS onto their seasons with no more effort than going out a week before the season to "sight-in" their new arrow gun. That, to me, is a slap in the face to all the men and women who have earned the privilege of hunting during the archery season through their own dedication and hard work.

[Tdog]

Eric I started my bowhunting walk the same way you did.We need to let others take that walk we have. You started with a wheel bow. It could have been a crossbow and then to a longbow or how ever it worked out. If they want to hunt I'm with them.The bottom line is we are a dying breed. If there kick off to this life style is through a crossbow so be it. I know guys with wheel bows who only shoot a week before the season.Me I shoot all year long that's me. I love it that much.We need to bring in new stock.Think out side the box.It seem's like your worried about someone shooting your deer.It's not your deer.It's a gift from GOD!Be happy for the other guy.I'm sorry that you don't get to spend alot of time out doors.This is where the greedy statement come's in.I spent my day doing the Tunnel's to Tower's run today. I do not like the city. I'm bigger than that.Give it a try. Love ya man.

[Stringwacker]

I truly believe that if we could get the crossbow proponents to understand it's not about 'my' deer the anti-crossbow position would be easier to understand. First of all, the 'my' deer argument is ludicrous because we are talking about 99.999999999% of all deer being taken by someone else just the way it is today. Additionally, state bowhunting organizations work their tail's off trying to recruit new archers.  The 'my' deer argument is made by proponents merely in an effort to sell a position. It has no basis when it's looked at closely. Second, proponents are agents of change who are not satisfied with the current state sponsored seasons and and cry 'selfish' when others advocate support for decades old hand held archery seasons. Third, what about handicap hunters? Is it fair to take away the one advantage that they have to be able to participate equally with other archers? Not all restrictions are equipment based. Four, just who is being denied a archery license in Michigan? I'm not from Michigan so as far as I know maybe all hunters whose last name starts with 'L" are denied an archery license. Who exactly is being excluded to participate in the state sponsored archery season? The opportunity to hunt.... is totally different than the opportunity to hunt with your preferred weapon. There is a difference. If that's the pandora box that your state wishes to open, you'll have lots of company. The desire to hunt in the 'archery' season surely goes far beyond that of a few crossbowmen. I'm sure the black powder and gun users would be emboldened by the 'inclusion' argument and crossbowmen success and would spread the cancer like 'inclusionist' argument. What's special about a 'string' weapon? What meaningful barrier does it create? More than the hand held barrier; lets hope so. Nobody gets a pass or 'off limits' marker by merely hunting with a bow. Maybe next year they will include handguns in your season because the range is similar and you get to pull a trigger; just like on a crossbow.

Archery as a hunting sport dies when there are no special seasons to support it. The yellow brick road that so many envision with crossbow legalization may ultimately prove to be just a beginning of a new movement where the masses that don't want to hunt with a bow are the new 'inclusionist'. As long as archery seasons are available for all to participate in (with a bow) it passes a litmus test of fairness because the issue becomes merely one of choice of whether to participate or not.

I think anyone is entitled to an opinion different than my own. I'm just saying maybe this entire crossbow debate needs a few more layers of the onion peeled back to get to some of the real issues at play.

[Brian Krebs]

Tdog-
   What we need to do; is to recognise that hunting with a traditional bow requires practice; and devotion; and a better knowledge of the animals we hunt.

 Rifle hunters were the first anti-bowhunters. They were afraid that the deer would not be huntable if the bowhunters woke them up to hunters.

 This is not our concern about crossbows.

The very special thing about traditional bowhunting is that it takes more time.
 
 More time in practice; more time in preparation; and more time to get close enough to get a shot.

 I think about 10% of the shots I have seen on hunting shows with compound/cam bows could have been taken with a longbow or recurve. We are talking bows that are shorter than my arrows; and that can be moved around and held back for really long periods of time.
 The crossbow is really an arrow shooting machine; just like the compound/cam bows; and only has a stock with the trigger built into itseparate: it from compound/cam bows.

 The thing I like about bowhunting is the time.

The longer time is nessesary because we have to overcome all the obstacles to succeed. Those obstacles being: becoming familiar with the way the bow shoots at different ranges; the need to practice; the need to be a little more familiar with animals to get close enough for a shot; and the timing and experience needed... to draw back when the animal steps into a shooting lane-- not long minutes at full draw until the animal presents a shot! That is rifle hunting !

 You hunt in the rifle season; you are in a tiny minority to hunt in the rifle season. Lets face it; if you make a heart shot on a deer; it can go 180 yards. If you are in a rifle season; that is enough time for someone else to shoot the deer; and if they see it fall- well gun season is pretty much 'who tags it first' season.*

 I am happy for you that you can hunt in rifle season. Most of us can't. Can't because of the safety concerns; and can't because of laws. I for instance: cannot hunt in the elk rifle season- with my bow tag for elk.

 This is all about money; and nothing about the importance of traditional bowhunting; and what "BOWHUNTING SEASON" means. We might go so low in numbers that our hunting is not a concern game management wise. In fact; Aldo Leopold the father of wildlife conservation; and a bowhunter: said 'bowhunters should never exist in such numbers that they are considered as a tool for game management policies'.

 What he was saying is; that when bowhunters start making as much of an impact on game herds: that wildlife mangers have to start controlling the length of seasons- we lose.

 We lose because the magic of bowhunting is freedom; not waiting in line like at a gas station for our turn; but out there absorbing the wild; becoming one with it; and practicing an art form that has existed for at least 7,500 years.

 Increase the number of hunters; the take goes up. Increase the technology  the take goes up; and the seasons will have to be adjusted; or we will have to pass profiecency tests; or not have the chance to hunt every year.

 Some states might be trying to recruit bowhunters; but I think that is not up to the state; but up to US.

 Shooting bows shorter than my arrows - bows that do not require but the least amount of practice or understanding of bowhunting ...is a fad. It is a big fad; but it is a fad.

 For heavens sake; don't encourage in everything that shoots a broadhead: because you don't mind hunting with gun hunters.

 Crossbows are on the front because of the advancement of compound and cam bows. Lets not let in everyone in the spirit of bowhunting; when those let in: ~have zero understanding or alliegence to it~.

 What was stated was true. If you can hunt more with a crossbow; why not a muzzleloader; and why not a pistol; and why not a rifle... you don't mind that-- but you ~must~ realize your totally in the minority there.

 This is an issue not about hunting; not about the heritage of hunting; not about game management; but about DOLLARS.

 Lets squash it whenever we can. It will ruin the bow seasons!!!!!!!!!

* if your hunting in rifle season; and see a buck bound by; and shoot it; the arrow wound through the heart means nothing. You killed the buck; and you tag it.
 In rifle seasons; the guy who 'drops' the animal has the right to tag it.
 In bow season; the first person to draw blood on an animal gets it. If I shoot a deer that is already really dying; why would I want to tag it? Most bowhunters happily follow this unwritten rule.

[Tdog]

Brian well put.You change my mind.I see what you mean.Thank you Tdog...

[2-BIG]

Thank you Brian!  

[fyrfyter43]

Thank you, Brian! Well put!

[Brian Krebs]

       

[2-BIG]

Well, I have some new information, which is more bad news.  :mad:  It seems that the Safarri Club International President has decided to join the push for crossbows here in Michigan. Here is some info:
During the October 9, 2008, 1:45 p.m. NRC Policy Committee on Wildlife and Fisheries meeting. a discussion will be held on the crossbow proposal by the Safari Club International.
The Natural Resources Commission would like input from the Crossbow Disability Work Group though the new proposal would address crossbow usage by able-bodied users.

If you are able, please join us at the NRC Policy Committee on Wildlife and Fisheries on October 9 beginning at 1:45 p.m. in Room 202 of the Lansing Center, 333 E. Michigan, Lansing.

[owlbait]

Doesn't Safari club allow penned animals in their "record book"? Wealthy elitist who want to shoot anything, anywhere, anyway, for any amount of money so they can have a "trophy". Not surprising that they would join the other side.

[jmdavis]

The thing that will kill hunting won't be crossbows, or modern inline muzzleloaders, or supermagnums with high powered scopes,or even anti-hunters; it will be hunters who would rather fractionalize and fight each other than fight those who would take away our ability to hunt.

I don't care what weapon you choose, I don't care if you use dogs, I cringe at the thought but I don't care if you bait. What I do care about is how you treat the land and how you honor the game.


I have hunted all my life. I have used recurves, compounds, crossbows, flintlocks, inlines, handguns, shotguns, and rifles. I am now learning to use the longbow.

But that longbow doesn't in anyway make me superior to the rifle hunter. I have taken deer at 4 yards with bows, shotguns, muzzleloaders, handguns and rifles. In my entire hunting lifetime (34 years for deer, 39 years for small game), I can count the shots that I have taken at game farther than 25 yards on my fingers. I can also say that I've missed more close shots than far.

If we don't pull together as hunters, we will lose the fight to keep the tradition of hunting alive.

[fyrfyter43]

Like many have already said (myself included), it's not about the weapon...it's about the appropriate season for it to be included in.