Crossbow inclusion passed in PA

[mooseman76]

Well the vote is in from the recent PGC meeting regarding the inclusion of crossbows into the general archery season.  It passed with a vote of 4-3.  They had a provision stating no magnifying scopes would be used, as if it softens the blow.  There is also a "sunset" provision where the issue will be revisited (and re-voted I believe) in 2012.  I assume this revisitation would be to determine the affects on the deer herd.  Sad day here in PA   :(  

Mike

[Wary Buck]

Actually, Mike, it's a sad day everywhere.  Sorry to hear these results.  Who says one vote doesn't count?

I'm so livid with the NRA right now I can hardly think straight.  They had NO BUSINESS getting in this battle.  It almost feels like catching one's wife of 30 years (how long I've been a member) in bed with another man.  That's the rotten feeling in my stomach as I've always stood by the NRA and now must re-evaluate my options.

Thanks, Mike, for updating us on the issue.

[novahunterpa]

Im sure many arent happy that it passsed, I belive it is a good thing for PA will give hunters choice.  I suppoeted crossbows in PA, not just for a hunter being able to pick there weapon, (I wont use a crossbow) but because many have made the argument that the archery "tradition" needs to be mantained, this could have worked many years ago and I would have been against the crossbw years ago.  Today the modern compound (noting against compounds or those who shoot them) has been allowed to advance to the point that its dificult to allow them and not the crossbow.  All the little extras they allowed over the years and changes in the law (triger releashes, mechanical broadheads, bows have more and more let off ect)  opend the door to allow the crossbow in PA  Same thing is happening to our flintlock season they allowed conical/sabot bullets in and im sure there will be a push for inlines soon.   Once you allow small changes or technology to reach the point of no return (as with the compound)  you open the door for more change (like the crossbow)  and its hard to make the traditon argument anymore.  I understand compounds and crossbows are different animals but at some point the the never ending search for more and more teck in bowhunting is what brought on the x-bow , and it was hard to be against them when they they allow the mordern compound.

[tukudu]

Michael,
    Good luck. It will be the death of our archery season. Wait to you see what comes out from underneath the rocks. It is a very very sad day in PA.

[Stringwacker]

I feel the pain..I was hoping for a miracle for you guys. 4 to 3...so darn close! I bet those NRA letters made a difference!

NovahunterPa

In life we have all made bad choices. You can either learn from them and do the right thing or use them to continue your reputation.

Just a crazy way of saying that it's okay to stop rationalizing because even when one thing is done wrong, you don't keep doing it for the mere sake of continuing the practice. You and I both know, someone will pick the same argument based on 'the crossbow is so much like__________ that I just don't see how we can keep from legalizing it." I bet you don't even recognize what todays crossbows looked like a deacde from now. The technology of this weapon has just begun.

I can build an argument from sling shots to atomic weaponry by just using small similar steps to build my case.

[vermonster13]

The ATA is more likely a bigger cause of it than any letters written for or against it. They see Crossbows as the only growth category left in archery so spend big bucks in the efforts to get them legalized everywhere they can.

[Stringwacker]

The ATA has met with the wildlife agency here quite a few times. I think it sticks in their craw that Ms is the last Southeastern state not to adopt the crossbow. There's a bill pending here and it's not certain that we can derail it the 4th year in a row. Regardless, we will fight the good fight.

I regret that I don't belong to the ATA for only the reason that I would love to drop the membership.

[brill16hockey]

I can already imagine all of the bush league crossgun hunters that I will be cursing at under my breath next season.  The difficulty of shooting a trad bow says alot about the kind of person that everyone on this site is.  The laziness of someone who will now hunt archery season because they can use a crossgun and dont have to spend the time learning the proper grip, arrow tuning, brace height, anchor point, and hunting skills that are nessecary when you need to get within 20 yards of your quarry.  

With that being said, it is so great to have a place like this where I can go and be around so many people that share the same beliefs as me.  I know that there are alot of friends and family members of mine will use a crossgun, I can guarantee it, but I will respectfully decline comment to them.  As long as we have traditional only get togethers and archery shoots, I will still cherish those times.

[GregD]

I'm disappointed but I expected it to pass. It's been legal here for the past few years where I live. The guys that live here are mad they can't use their 4 power scopes anymore and have to try and get by with a primitive laser sight. I'm a little surprised there isn't more outrage as each state falls. Most guys are saying they will continue to support the NRA despite their crossbow stance. I suspect the NRA post would have gotten a much bigger response if it was on pow wow. I'm sure they will continue to actively push other states for full inclusion from now on. I wonder if everyone is even aware they are the crossbow lobby's new ally.

[longbowman]

I hate to say I told you so but this was a no brainer for the PGC.  They are raising the cost of license for the next three years and they know they have to "give" something in order to justify it for those who are ready to quit because of the AR.  I believe inlines are next and the Sunday hunting.  They will have added all they can to make as many "new" people happy because they know that die hard bowhunters aren't going to quit just because of crossbows and die hard muzzle stuffers aren't going to quit because of inlines.
    The one thing that people are missing is the fact that crossbows really don't add yards to the shooting of deer.  I've seen compound shooters shoot 4" groups at distances that a 200# wheely compound wouldn't reach.  The bolt is so light that after about 40 yds. it completely dies.  It's just the thought that hurts.

[ChuckC]

check out the video.  they are claiming 100 yards with one hole accuracy  (course,  most rifles can't promise that).
ChuckC

[novahunterpa]

Whatever you view on the crossbow tradgang isnt the place to get into that debate  but from what I hear there was a reason the BOC  (board of commissioners) and the PGC looked into this issue in the first place (other then the obvious)

One of the major reasons for the BOC looking into crossbows in archery was from pressure from the gereral assembly (legislator).  The legislative branch was ready to proposs bill to include crossbow.  the BOC, PGC and hunters no matter there view on this or any other Issue dont want the legislative branch getting involed in game managment, we want them to mantian a certain level of independance.  

longbowman said something about a licence increase,  The PGC hasent gotten any licence increase in years and hasent gotten one yet, there are some promises but there just that, the general assembly has been holding the PGC hostage by not giving them the proper funding they need wich hurts all hunters in PA.   They have basicly told the PGC no increase in funding till they reduce anterless tags, and rebound the deer heard,  One of the casualties of AR/HR.  

  There was more at stake here then just crossbows, but thats just how political hunting in PA has come in recent years.   The crossbow debate has been a bitter one (one both sides) and has really divided hunters in PA,  I hope the fighting this has brought can get behind the sportsman of PA as im sur it will, we will have much bigger fights ahead and allus hunters will need to stick together.

[Wary Buck]

With all due respect, Nova, I do think the Legislative Forum of TradGang IS the place to discuss crossbows and the future of bowhunting.

It irks me that when bowhunting (and turkey hunting) are apparently the two "growth" areas of hunters, why the DNR's and the NRA would want to monkey with the bowhunting season which is doing well in terms of popularity and recruitment.

"I regret that I don't belong to the ATA for only the reason that I would love to drop the membership." from Stringwhacker.  Now, that's funny right there!

The ATA would sell bowhunting down the river if there was an extra buck to be made.

[longbowman]

Novahunter, you are absolutely correct on the license increase.  It was last year that I received a bulletin from the PGC telling about the license increase proposal but that legislation has not been introduced for the reasons that you have mentioned about them being held hostage.  I stand corrected!

[novahunterpa]

JUSt on a side note (not sure if im allowed to post links)  found out today that some in the legislator arent even happy now that crossbow became legal and are apperantly going to push legislation to get magnified scopes allowed on crossbows,  Even though the BOC disallowed them when passing the crossbow into archery season.   Seems like like the legislators still arent happy and are going for more.

[Brian Krebs]

 I find it hard that bowhunters voted for this - in an archery season?

 Traditional bowhunting goes back so far in our history; and is: through the Native Americans; and the Thompsons; and Pope and Young and us.

 To keep it we need to talk about it. If its law; seems like here(Hunting Legislation and Polices) is the place to talk about it.

  Does it not seem like we need to talk about it?

[Wary Buck]

It does not surprise me that the crossbow enthusiasts are unhappy with the no-magnification restriction.  You'd think since most states don't allow magnification scopes on their hand-held bows, that this would be pretty much common sense.  But they (the crossbow manufacturers and opportunists) will not be happy until they have a weapon with much more advantage than standard bows.  That's been the goal all along:  to gain access to a special season with a superior weapon.  I think there's a saying about the camel's nose under the tent wall or something that may apply here...

In Nebraska, we had the same thing with muzzleloaders.  They started out rather simple, and then Toby Bridges and everyone started screaming that magnified scopes and in-lines were needed and threatened lawsuits for older folks with poor eyesight, etc.  Next thing you know we have a 200-yard traditional weapon.  Right.  

We just keep lowering the bar...

[Stringwacker]

After 20 years of being involved in politics, I can assure you that there is never a point reached where you say "that's all the changes that will be made".

When government allows change, it serves as encouragement for the public to ask for just a few more....and a few more...and a few more.