NY hunters...3 pt antler law question....

[vtmtnman]

I was just thumbing through my NY state law book and saw that you guys have a 3 point rule in 3C,3H,3J,3K.I knew this was there for some years but decided to ask about it now.

I've never hunted that part of the state,nor do I hear much about how things are herd wise...any of you guys that hunt down that way see improvements there?

[J.Williams]

I live and do all my deer hunting in 3J and have definitely noticed more bigger bucks because of the AR's that have been in place 5 years now and most every hunter around here agrees.
Before the AR's probably 90% of the buck take was 1.5yr.olds...now they're being allowed to grow some.Not 'great' QDM but it's something and the local butchers and taxidermists have noticed a difference too.
There's been talk of expanding the AR's to other WMU's too...we'll see.

[ron w]

I have heard good and bad, but I don't hunt down that way, so I take what I heard with a grain of salt. I'm sure more folks from down that way will post and let us know if it's good or not so good. Sounds like J.Williams is giving it a thumbs up!

[SteveB]

Actual reported harvest numbers show a substantial decrease in overall buck take with only a moderate increase in older bucks taken. Hope it spreads no farther in the state.

[J.Williams]

I suppose that might be true SteveB but deer numbers have been down in some areas around here the last couple years(too many DMP's issued).This past season they didn't issue nearly as many...hope it helps.Still,I have seen good numbers of bucks and more bigger ones on the properties I hunt and have been fortunate enough to take some of my best deer ever since AR's have been in place.
AR's aren't for everyone,that's understandable,but they do make for some bigger bucks.

[Cyclic-Rivers]

When I lived in 3J where Jeff Hunts, I also noticed nicer bucks while driving, They tended to disappear right about when velvet came off the antlers. They would be out like clockwork and then vanish every year (different bucks), never to be seen again. I always assumed it was poachers but never could tell.

My buddy hunts 3J. up until 2 years ago, never saw a buck other than nubbers. The past 2 years he has shot 2 6's a 7 and an 8 and spent significantly less time in the woods. could be coincidence could be luck who knows.

I am neither for or against it, I lost an opportunity at a 5 point between the 3 point law and my stupidity.

I thought it was a four point and never readied myself.  when it was 10 yards broadside, I could clearly see the 3 points on one side but then it was too late   .

[Earl Jeff]

3pt Antler restriction was the best thing that ever happened to the PA deer herd. Now they need to stop shooting Does.

[vtmtnman]

Interesting points guys,thanks for the replies.I myself am in favor any antler restrictions here in the east,as our buck need to time to grow so we can have good buck around.

[Converml]

I know it has helped get some size on the bucks in PA so why not in those regions.

[Mojostick]

APR's are typically put in place as a way to guide more hunters into killing more antlerless deer, even if the hunters don't know it.

APR's will lower antlered buck kill, but it's by design. In most area's of the country, deer kill is still skewed too heavily towards antlered bucks, thus creating a situation where the overall numbers cannot be adequately kept in check.

While that philosophy of focusing on bucks, that started in the 1920's, is ingrained in many hunters minds, the fact is that in the 21st century, more antlerless deer killed and less bucks killed will have to be the guiding principle in deer herd management, especially as hunter numbers shrink due to the changing demographics.

APR's are much more popular than say "earn a buck" programs. However, in another 20 years, when we lose a roughly predicted 1/3 of our deer hunters, more drastic measures may/will be needed to address herd numbers.

[Ydanny]

I live and hunt in 3H and also hunt in 3J.  AR's were implemented in wildlife management units 3H, 3K, 3C, and 3J in 2005.  Naturally the first few years the buck take will be lower but it is now about the same as it was in 2004 and prior.  The difference now is that 79% of the bucks harvested in those 4 WMU's are 2.5 years and older now.  Are we seeing better bucks?  You bet we are.  
There are those opposed to AR's and that is their right.  From what I've seen personally, many of those that were opposed to AR's in 2005 are now in favor of the program.  Of the people I hunt with I would say 4 out 5 are very happy with what has been done here.
Last year the DEC failed to expand AR's into 8 surrounding WMU's even though there was support from 67% of hunters in those units.  There is a group in Schoharie and Greene counties trying to gain support for AR's and convince the DEC to go ahead and pass a 3 point rule in those area's.  I hope they succeed.
On the other side I've been hearing that the DEC is considering ending the program in the 4 WMU's.  It is a pilot program and even though it has positive support they can end it.  Even if they do I think a lot individuals will still practice some sort of "rule" themselves because they have seen the positive effects.  
I don't consider myself a trophy hunter but I'll tell you I would rather shoot a 175lb 8 pointer than 100lb spike.

[ron w]

A lot depends on the deer herd in a certain area. Area 4A Montgomery and Northern Scoharie Co. the deer numbers are not what they are just a bit south and west. When I average seeing 3-5 deer a year, [yes that's the whole season] it's tough to say that I can't shoot a spike or a fork horn....may be the only deer I see for the entire season. Right now the deer numbers in my area are the same as they are in the Adirondacks!!! LOW!!!

[SteveB]

Ydanny - I thought I saw in the past few months a report showing the buck take is still far below the pre AR's - can't find it right now. Do you have info available showing it has returned
to 2004 levels?

It seems that overall herd numbers in those wmu's
are low. Is a program that can result in the taking of even more does a good thing?

[Ydanny]

The only year that I remember seeing a major decrease in the buck take in the 4 WMU's we are talking about was 2005.  I don't see the correlation between AR's and doe take.  Maybe the first year or two if people want meat in freezer but not anymore.

I don't think AR's are right for every where in NY.  I also don't think anyone has to worry about it.   Last years failed expansion attempt that had solid sportsman support shows how the DEC feels.

One last thing that I didn't mention in my first post.  The first two years I was dead against the 3 point rule.