IL proposal- Archery devices?

[Cold Weather]

"My own opinion (opinion mind you) is that it's a hybrid that has some bow and gun attributes, neither defining what it really is. It's not called a Cross Bow, which in that case 'cross' would define what kind of bow, but rather a "crossbow" which is a noun that defines something totally different...much like the nouns 'seahorse' or 'groundhog'; neither representing an object as the name seems to imply"

longbows are called longbows.  just like crossbow is called crossbow.

[ChuckC]

And rainbows are called rainbows.

There is a point to my arguement.  Whatever you call it, it is designed to be easier to utilize, to make the thing better and better.  We as humans have a tendancy to do that.  At some point, we will reach a tipping point.  

I am gonna go on a limb and profess that if compound bows came out in the 70's with the capability that they have today, they would never have been allowed in the bow seasons, especially the seasons of past days.  

As I stated, deer herd numbers are currently very high is some areas.  Too high, so anything goes.  Kill more of them any way you can is the current mentality.  But that is not likely to be that way forever.  When the stuff hits the fan, and it likely will, the entire bow season is likely to be hurt, because of the better kill rate we now achieve when you add in the compounds and the crossows.  It is very unlikely that they will separate out the players, just cut the season.

Look up the McAlester (did I spell it right) military base and their long standing archery hunt.  They kept detailed information regarding the hunts. Their numbers sure seemed to indicate that adding compound bows to the mix skewed the kill numbers and made that particular hunt non-sustainable.  That was back in the day when compounds were nowhere near as good.

I don't care what you use.  If you want to water down the whole thing and use a long range rifle then go for it.  Your loss, not mine.  But to say that each of these leaps is not incrementally making the process easier is not opening your eyes.

Can someone pick up a longbow and go hunting the same day.  Sure.  But they are very unlikely to actually hit anything.  You need to practice at least a bit.  That brings up testing, another issue for another in-depth discussion.

With a compound, I can nearly guarantee that is possible, and with a xbow, there is no doubt in my mind.

Will it change the numbers ?  Well, I am pretty sure it will. If the SCI information I quoted is correct, it did already. Give it time to happen, then we shall see.  I am worried, though, that it will be too late by then.  Big business runs the world, not our legislators, and there is too much money at stake.

Of course, this is just my opinion.


ChuckC

[Cold Weather]

when we see rainbows shoot arrows and listed as archery that will be an point worth discussing.


what does ease of use have to do with anything?

does the xbow put up your treestand for you?

do you just leave it in the woods, and go home and watch youtube in the comfort of your home while it bags a deer for you.

what you really are talking about is equipment restrictions.

perhaps we should not allow compounds in the woods, no laser rangefinders.

there are cameras that one can use to determine the deer.

it goes on and on

[ChuckC]

Doug. .  seriously ?

We are talking about the weapons, not the treestands etc.

The fact that guns allow a much higher success rate than archery is why gun seasons are typically short and archery seasons are typically long.  The numer of hours spent per deer unit is much higher for archery than for guns.

If you skew those results (by adding in crossbows, which appear... to allow a higher kill rate) are they gonna shorten the archery season ?

THAT is our issue and concern.
ChuckC

[bjansen]

Precisely.

[Cold Weather]

Originally posted by ChuckC:
Doug. .  seriously ?

We are talking about the weapons, not the treestands etc.

The fact that guns allow a much higher success rate than archery is why gun seasons are typically short and archery seasons are typically long.  The numer of hours spent per deer unit is much higher for archery than for guns.

If you skew those results (by adding in crossbows, which appear... to allow a higher kill rate) are they gonna shorten the archery season ?

THAT is our issue and concern.
ChuckC

now, Chuck

you have now many examples of xbow legal in archery seasons.

so, I would like you to provide one example of where this has happened.

xbows have been in OH for many years.  same as WY.  Been there in BC many years, as ONT.

none of your doom and gloom theory ever happens.

[bjansen]

Our Illinois "sling shot" whitetail hunting bill (the original purpose of this thread) was knocked down to allow the slingbow on rough fish only...for now at least.

[bjansen]

The "archery devise" bill is back again for 2014 in IL.  Has anyone else seen a new bill introduced like this in a US state.

[ChuckC]

Someone has a product to sell in a niche market.  Money to be made.  It will be reintroduced every year till they run out of money / persuasion power, or till it is passed.  

A redesign of the spear gun is next (because you can put a scope on it, cock it and shoot it easier (see any similarities here ?) and everybody can use it.  Not everybody is stout enough to pull a slingshot !  Why should we leave out anybody ?

My opinion.

ChuckC

[Mojostick]

Like Cold Weather, I also worked in the archery dept at Cabela's and I have about 40 years in archery.

I'd also add, I basically agnostic on crossbows. I personally don't like them for able bodied adults and would never use one unless it was physically impossible to draw enough weight to kill game. However, I think there's so many people that need them to hunt for varied reasons and are frankly better off using them if they're actually going to send an arrow at a deer, I don't think they should be banned. As a general rule, I'm not for banning weapons. My exceptions are if a weapon/ammo is inadequate in typical hands, like a .22lr for deer, .410 slug or buckshot for deer. I have no issue with states that ban their use, because anyone can still use a 20ga or 12ga slug out of the same weapon.

Now, as a person with lots of kids recurve bows and light weight bows and with a bow range in the basement and with a big backyard range for all the neighborhood kids to shoot recurves and longbows, I have no problem with kids age 8-14 using a crossbow with adult supervision or senior citizens with a host of aliments. I wish crossbows were legal in Michigan when my dad was still alive. He couldn't qualify for the excessive "handicap" Michigan permit, but he was a cancer and heart attack survivor who still wanted to enjoy bow season. He would have gone with us if he could have used a crossbow. It would have been nice to have my dad enjoy another 5 bow seasons, but the old laws didn't allow it.

And I'll likely get a youth crossbow for my daughter who'll be 9 this Summer. Nothing will make me happier than watching her kill a doe in the youth hunt with it, at close range.

That said, crossbows are not wonder weapons. I know of tons of people that bought crossbows only to sell them and go back to compounds.

Crossbows are very heavy and bulky. They are a major pain while sitting in a tree or getting in or out of a tree. They are very loud. They are game spookers when shot to "uncock". They are very heavy to walk with to the stand. The bolts shed KE quickly and on and on.

Now, at 25-30 yards, anyone who can shoot a pellet gun can do well with a crossbow. However, with the modern compound and all the accessories, a new shooter can be doing the same thing in about half an hour.

Pound for pound, if I had to feed my family by using a bow and arrow, the top game getter would be a very nice compound with all the gadgets and a great release. In the bow and arrow world, nothing is more lethal at varies ranges and varied stand heights than someone with a nice Mathews, Hoyt or Bear compound who's put in some modest practice. Just my two cents.

[jonsimoneau]

Crossbows are not bows. I see a guy out there with a crossbow and a scope on it etc, and I'm supposed to pretend that what this guy is doing is the same thing as what we do? Not even close. They belong in gun season .  And the argument about how they are not much different than a compound only shows that compounds have gone way to far.

[Cory Mattson]

tradgang for those who use real bows.