1080

[theunluckyhunter]

is there any signifigant between 1095 and 1080?


    ---thanks in advance boys

[robtattoo]

15.


   

1095 Composition
Element  Weight %  
C  0.90-1.03  
Mn  0.30-0.50  
P  0.04 (max)  
S  0.05 (max)  


1080 Composition
Element  Weight %  
C  0.75-0.88  
Mn  0.60-0.90  
P  0.04 (max)  
S  0.05 (max)  

These are the really important bits, as far as knifemaking are concerned. 1095 has a higher carbon content & will quench-harden to a much higher level than 1080, although (IIRC) both can be drawn back to the same RWC level. However, the greater the difference between the 'as quenched' hardness & the final tempered hardness, the finer the graining within the structure & the tougher the blade.

[ALW]

Good information.  What kind of hardness can you expect after a quench with each type of steel?  I've been wanting to buy some known steel types and wasn't sure what was the best for a beginner.  And what kind of hardness I could expect to see (assuming I do my part).  I have access to a hardness tester.  

Sorry, I hope I didn't hi-jack this thread.

Aaron

[kbaknife]

Not only a really good steel, but for the person who has the minimum of heat treating experience, it's tough to beat 1084.
Care still needs to be exercised in forging and normalizing so as not to overheat/burn and to get good grain refinement, but when it comes to heat treating, because of the chemistry, about all you need to do is get it non-magnetic and then QUENCH! You'll end up with a very serviceable blade.
When you get into other steels with more carbon and/or alloys, your heat control times become more demanding for extended soak times, specific target temps, etc.
1084 is tough to beat.
If you need some contact info for a friend who sells good quality 1084, just let me know.

[Jeremy]

I'm just going to echo Karl on this.  1080 or 1084 are good choices for knives and the heat treatment couldn't be easier.

Rob's spot on as far as the as quenched hardness of 1095 being higher, but it's only by a point or two when done properly and for both steels the as quenched hardness is too high for a knife (somewhere hovering around 66 Rc for both of 'em).

The heat treatment for 1095 can be a little finicky.  Technically it's a water hardening steel.  For a small blade you can quench in oil and still get excellent results, but to harden a large blade properly, especially if you're doing an edge quench, you really need the water.  If you go just a hair above the critical temp with 1095 and quench in water you'll very likely crack the blade (been there, done that).

[theunluckyhunter]

thanks guys, i've made my share of knives but (and i know yall hate this) i work the steel hard. i just ordered 5 feet of 1080 for VERY cheap, all yall are saying is the rw is different before tempering? i plan on doing a few blade at a time and sending them to texas knife. heck if one of yall want to make some money i'll send them to you to have them cooked lol

[kbaknife]

I'm not sure I follow your questioning.
You are differentiating between hardening and tempering - correct?
When you temper, which is a stress relief following hardening, you continue to create a small amount of martensite (which is the hardened condition of steel) during the first tempering cycle, which also relieves some of the built up stresses within the steel which is the result of converting austenite to martensite.
This is then followed by a SECOND tempering cycle to further relieve the stresses built up from making the NEW martensite.
Both of these tempering cycles reduce the hardness, but minimizes the brittleness as well, and increases the toughness.
This is assuming, of course, that your procedures, in conjunction with quality steel and due attention to proper quenchants to match your heat control, result in full hardness in the first place.
There is no reason to temper steel that wasn't hardened in the first place.

[theunluckyhunter]

yes i know that, but several people on here (the way im reading it) are saying you cant get as high of a quench hardness out of 1080. but as long as it is hardened then they will temper (draw back) to the same hardness.


i'm not trying to sound like an idiot, for the most part i know what im talking about lol. i just don't know of many people that use 1080 so i'm wanting to get my facts straight on it.


sorry for the confusion and thanks again

[tippit]

I use 1080 & 5160 all the time.  They seem to forge work, quench, and temper pretty much the same for me.  I can't tell much difference between the edge holding ability of either one.  Both will usually skin a bear before re-sharping.  That my best test on edge holding     tippit

[TxMoon]

Tippit I sure do like your edge holding test must try that some day my self.