Forging Question, Preforms?

[Steve Nuckels]

Ok, I have a question concerning forging, I have no forging experience and probably not using the proper terminology.

Help from the "Pro's" and any others in the "Know"
 
So the question is do you "Preform" your stock to create the different shape knives, like Lin's bowie's or Karl's Hunters, Doug's Caper's and Doc's Multi use utilities, Etc...?

Could you show examples or diagrams of how you start the process.

And, do you start forging at the point of the blade?

Any info would be helpful, thanks   Steve

[Lin Rhea]

Steve,
       These are good questions.

I try to always have at least a good idea of the finished knife either in mind or actually drawn on paper. I then like to make a pattern by laying plexiglass on my drawing. You can easily trace the blade, including the tang, pin location, etc directly and cut that out on a bandsaw and file or grind it to shape. This is just a profile. I then take that profile and tranfer it to an aluminum sheet (1/8) and cut it out. This is what I use as a pattern when I forge.

It withstands heat, you can hang it in your shop and mark your knife model on it. You can even stamp your name on it just like a regular blade so there's no doubt whose it is. This process helps insure that you can repeat this knife closely, in the case you like it or want to make several.

As for forging techniques, you really need to see it done. I dont have any pictures of working the blade tip down. Someone here may.

[kbaknife]

I make patterns as well, Lin.
I just use 1/8" flat stock from the store.
Same idea.
Steve, it gives you something to forge "towards".
Constantly lay this pattern on your forging to see what direction you need to go.
Yes, I start on the point.
As you thin the cutting edge down, this does tend to raise the point end of the blade.
You can push that point down - pre-form - if you like, but I don't. That just seems so ambiguous to me. I really have no idea who far to do it!
So, as my point might raise, I just tap it back down to keep it straight.
There's a lot of different ways to forge a blade.
Like Lin says, it's a big benefit if you can get to a maker's shop and see how someone else does it.
But, that's only the way HE would do it.
You, Lin and I could all forge the same blade but go about three different ways.
There is no better way of learning than to go to your shop and start banging'! If something doesn't work out, then try to figure out why and do another one!
I've got buckets full of failures.
Don't be afraid to make mistakes.
They're good teachers.

[Lin Rhea]

Steve,
       Karl's right. Get out there and use your instincts. Most who forge will start with the tip and then proceed drawing the cutting edge down and so forth. I have a picture of Joe Keeslar, not roughing the tip, but refining the tip. I will say, though, that you would hold the bar the same way, angled up, and strike the corners inward just as if Joe's bar were still squared on the end. Use the anvil as an opposing force to the hammer. The corners go in simply displacing the material. Make the tip look roughly like a spear tip and then change it as your design calls for. I missed getting the picture of him forging the tip. Lin
 

[Doug Campbell]

Me three on the patterns, mine are mostly out of a couple of old aluminum baking pan I've cut up. Anything that will resist heat will work. My forging is pretty rough compared to alot of guys. I've seen some guys that practically have a finished blade compared to mine. Try and get to watch the masters and then lots and lots of hours with a hammer in your hand. When you get the hang of it you'll make far great use of your material than when you just "ground" away what wasn't supposed to be there.

This where you can use up those old mower blades, bed rails and junk like that. Don't cost much to practice that way, when you think your getting there then go to the good steel...

[T.Minish]

Thanks for pointing that out Doug... I was just about to ask how close to finished shape you all forge your blades, and how much stock removal goes into your forged blades.

[kbaknife]

Here's exactly what we're talking about!
First, I drew out the finished knife I wanted to make.
Cut out a steel pattern to forge "TO".
Here's the blade right off the anvil.
This was from a round bar 2 1/8" round.
It is tapered from spine to cutting adge and ricasso to point.
And also tapered from ricasso to end of tang!
 

[Lin Rhea]

That's right Karl. Yours is a good example. Here's another.

This is the forged blade from Joe. Notice he rounded the tang in preparation for threading. It's pretty close with not a whole lot of grinding to do. Mostly knock off the scale, slick it up, and it's ready to stamp and harden. This is not to say that you have to forge that close before going to the grinder. It's just easier to grind when you get better at forging, in my opinion. Lin
 

[kbaknife]

That's a Keeslar knife if I ever saw one.

[Steve Nuckels]

OK! Thanks so much, great info!  I think that anwsered my question, I seem to have the ability to "eyeball" things as far as balance and flow and end up looking right, As you said Lin, "Get out there and use your instincts"

I'm currently building a small gas forge, got my anvil a hammer too.  If you were to have one pair of tongs which type would it be?  Or will a pair of Vice-grips work as well?

Steve

------------------
IN GOD WE TRUST

[Lin Rhea]

Box jaw tongs. But I cant have just one pair, it seems. Lin