Question for Knife Gurus...Damascus Dilemma?

[tippit]

For me damascus steel is by far & away the most beautiful of steel...But it doesn't seem to hold an edge nearly as well as 5160 or 52100.  Is it me or is it the composition with the nickle making it softer?

Granted I've not used much damascus for my own forging but that seems to hold true for all the different damascus knives I've had in the past. Is there a difference in the quality of 1084 & 15n20 damascus? How does it compare for those of you that make dmascus & forge other high carbon steels?

Thanks ahead of time for any replies...tippit

[kbaknife]

"Jesus Christ, Himself, could send a bar of steel down from Heaven.
It will only be as good as the heat treatment it gets."
Jerry Rados.

Nickel doesn't make 15N20 or your Damascus softer.
Think of it this way, that 15N20, made by Uddeholm, is the very same stock used to make industrial/commercial bandsaw blades for saw mills that cut MILES! of logs and timber before being resharpened or replaced.

Using known steels, any failures we encounter can not be blamed on the steel.

5160 will make a tougher blade - possibly, because of the chromium carbides - but 1084/15N20 pattern welded steel should get sharper and potentially stay that way longer.

[tippit]

Karl,  What are the quenching & tempering specs on 1084/15n20 as compared to 5160?  Jeff

[kbaknife]

After doing some reducing heat forging toward the end of my forging cycle, I will do 2-3 reducing heat thermal cycles - do NOT! come down to room temp, just to a black heat - followed by a full quench in room temp #50 to create martensite.
After creating this martensite I will not go above non-mag again until ready to harden.
I then do a sub-critical soak at around 1325 for 1 1/2 hours in the HT oven and cool back to oven temp to spherodize the steel.
Grind.
Using my forge to austenize, I will do 2-3 thermal cycles back to a black heat to get the alloy back into solution and full quench the blade in 100 degree Parks #50 on a 3rd or 4th austenizing cycle.
A hunter type blade would get 2 full 2 1/2 hour tempers at 400* cooling back to room temp in the oven.
Bigger knives might get the same @ 425*.

[kbaknife]

I will do pretty much the same post-forging and spherodizing cycles on the 5160, but for hardening 5160 I will soak at around 5120 or so in the HT oven for about 10-15 minutes depending on blade size, and quench in 150* Texaco A medium speed oil.
5160 is an entirely different animal due to all the chrome, and very deep hardening.