Need help with a Chef knife project!

[Wingless Arrow]

months, and i want to make her a chef knife. She is a chef, and started her own restaurant a year or so ago. I'm really proud of the work shes done, and would like to make her something really nice. (hopefully! haha)

My skills are not all that great, but I have done a lot of research. If someone would be able to explain a "simple"-er way to make Damascus, i would LOVE to try that! i heard that you can take chainsaw chains, heat them and hammer them together. then just fold and fold and you get Damascus, after, (i think) you etch it, right? I'm not sure about that part. If that is possible, could you just use some steel chain?

My main question is what type of steel to use. Its going to be used for chopping and cutting foods of course, so does that play-in to the type of steel? I'm thinking i need to focus on edge holding capability the most, maybe damage resistance.(she isn't very careful     )

One of my second biggest questions is hardening. i haven't read much about it in detail, but i know the basic idea. heat then quench in oil. but i know there is a process when you just do that to the edge? something to do with putting clay on everything but the cutting edge. but when exactly do you apply the clay, or what ever it is? they were saying to apply it kind of thin, and then allow it to slowly dry before you start, so i assume its before you heat it. so you apply, then heat it in the forge?

im sorry for all of the questions, but i am kind of new to all of the technical knife making. used to make little stuff when i was a kid, but never really took it past that till a couple months back. i really appreciate any help you guys have to offer me. hopefully with your help, ill be able to compete with the rest of you one day.    

thanks,

JL

[4est trekker]

A fella could write a book or ten (and has) answering the questions you posed above.  After acquiring the knowledge comes acquiring the tools and skill.  This is a fantastic and rewarding journey, but because you've got such a high-end, sophisticated, focused product in mind that she'll used hard everyday, I'd look at getting a quality knife blank...that's just if'n I was you.        There are several quality companies/dealers out there that carry some beautiful chef knives, including those in Damascus.  Getting a quality blank helps insure (depending on the source) that you're getting a proven design and steel for the intended purpose, a proper heat treat process for the steel, etc.  Then, make it your own by designing and finishing the handle, display box, etc.  (I'd for sure use something that's been stabilized or is non-organic for the handle.)  Doing it this way allows you to learn a few skills at a time...not the whole shootin' match.

I hope this proves helpful  

[Steve Nuckels]

I think Trekker's advice is your best course. A "Simpler way" to make damascus, there are several ways but none simple!  Damascus is a whole other animal in Bladesmithing, so many things can go wrong and for good results a well equiped shop and experience is a must!  Heck I find it challanging making a decent knife from simple carbon steel!  

I'm not trying to discourage you, but I would start simple and go from there.

Good luck which ever way you choose.

Steve
--------
Potomac Forge
ABS Apprentice

[gudspelr]

You have some good advice, already.  Damascus steel is a very in depth process requiring forge welding temps and good technique to avoid problems (like a bad weld).  That's all separate from a good heat treating process, which has it's own set of "rules" to get great performance.  Edge holding capability is definitely a big thing and that will be achieved by good edge geometry coupled with a sound heat treatment.

Basically, trying to learn all of that and do it well with what I'm assuming will be a pretty thin and potentially long blade would be very daunting.  It might be worth finding a good blank from a supplier or having an experienced bladesmith make one for you to finish out.  Then, as you gain more experience, you can make one of your own to give.  I've given my folks some TERRIBLE knives....I keep telling myself and them that those will be a good record of how much better the future ones are    .  Good luck


Jeremy

[Wingless Arrow]

So i guess no one has any advice to answer my questions. I realize Damascus is hard to make, i should have said basic, instead. i just wanted to start my understanding of it. I just need one person to clear up my questions, or even point me to a good post that I've missed. thanks for all of your advice so far.

[Bladepeek]

I think everybody did answer your questiion. If you're under a deadline, have not done any forging and want to wind up with a quality knife that she will be proud of, 4est trekker nailed it down pretty well for you. There are some great chefs knife blades for sale out there and you can make it really special for her. If you want to start forging, make a small, 3"-4" knife out of 1084 or 5160. Forge it "sorta" to shape, harden and temper it, then finish grind it. Each one of those is an exercise in itself. Once you get comfortable forging blades, THEN find someone with experience in making damascus to get you started there. Or take a class on damascus making. There are nearly always some quality classes going on somewhere and you get the benefit not only of learning from your own mistakes, but everybody's mistakes.

I've taken three damascus classes from master smiths and fooled around a bit in shops that have power hammers. Lots of fun, but I know nothing would have turned out without some expert help.

[gudspelr]

To answer some of your questions:

Yes, you could use chain if you wanted to.  You'll need a forge and realistically, either a hydraulic press or power hammer.  There is no simpler way of making damascus.  It is true that it is generally just taking different steels, heating it to forgewelding temp, and hammering/pressing them into one piece, then drawing it out, then either folding or cutting and stacking, and then repeating.  That is "simple", just like surgery on someone's finger is-cut, pull skin back, repair tendon, stitch skin back together....  It's all in the details and not easily accomplished.

Your next question as to what kind of steel to use-I wouldn't use chain.  If you want a very good cutting blade that will need minimal sharpening, use a known steel.  You COULD get good results from the chain, but you'd need to know what kind of steel it is in order to really nail the heat treat-remember, edge geometry coupled with heat treat makes it cut well AND for a long time.  Not saying chain couldn't do that, but you take some of the variables out by using known steels.  Many of even the best makers use 1080 and 15N20 for their damascus knives.  I would start there.

Your question on hardening the blade-yes, you can edge quench the blade, leaving the spine out.  Know what it is you want out of the knife which can dictate your heat treatment process.  Your reference to putting clay on the blade is most often in regards to achieving a "hamon".  Do some searches and you will see what goes into it and the work required to get a good hamon.  Fast quenching steels like W2, 10XX are typically used when looking for a hamon, not damascus steel; you want a carbon steel with lower Manganese.


Jeremy

[MikeW]

Why don't you just buy some Damascus bar stock if you know the rest, most knife supply places sell it.

[akaboomer]

The best advise I can give is to join the American Bladesmith Society. Start with smaller projects. Kitchen cutlery is a whole different ball of wax even without adding complexities of Damascus.

With long thin blades the probability of warpage in the quench is a reality.

Chris

[Wingless Arrow]

Thanks gudspelr. that was all the advice i was lookin for. Bladepeek, i really wasn't trying to put down any of the advice they gave me. its just that most of them were focusing on how i wanted to use damascus. so that was all i was trying to say in my last post. im sorry if it came off any other way. i really do appreciate you guys helping me out. and i will follow your advice, i will probably just purchase a damascus blank. if i dont i will just forge a normal blade. again, thank you all.