Damascus vs other steels

[3212bend]

What are some opinions on Damascus,is it just for looks, or is it as durable and function able as other steels ?

[D.Ellis]

Damascus steel will perform as well as any other mono steel if it is made from good quality steels and heat treated properly. I also like it for durability of finish........ if etched deep you have a very durable finish that looks good even if used hard.
So, yes, it is for looks, but properly done gives up nothing in performance to any other steel.
Darcy  

[Bobby Urban]

x2 on the above post - Mostly for look but performs very well if properly constructed.  That said, I would argue that a high performance knife made of known mono steel with perfectly controlled tolerances in the HT process will slightly out perform it's equal in design and construction made of two or more steels.  I only believe this based on the uniformity of the steel during the HT process.  If both steels were exact in HT requirements then no difference.  

As far as a cutting tool used for common tasks it would never be noticed.

[Lin Rhea]

I would agree with all of the above statements.

However, I would offer this observation about the performance of particular Damascus patterns and layer counts. In my opinion, some pattern welded blades will offer a difference in cutting qualities. Perhaps better than mono steel according to some. While Bobby states that the uniformity of the steel is a plus, some might actually like the micro serrations provided by the alternating layers of differing steels. As mentioned the heat treat will affect each type of steel differently so the choices of steels in the combination will enter into the list of variables.

Two examples:
1
Two steels very compatible with one another and similar in heat treat such as 1084 and 15N20. It will cut great if heat treated properly in about any layer count BUT it will cut DIFFERENTLY at 150 layer count than at 300-500. Since the steels are essentially the same, the only factor the smith has to make it cut differently than mono steel is the frequency of layers and perhaps the pattern.

2
If the smith were to introduce an odd steel, or even iron, into the mix with his pet two steels, he can affect the cutting qualities over and above the layer count. This is true up to a point where the carbon has fully migrated from the high carbon to the iron.
 

While it is true that the differences are noticeable by those who make and test often, for the most part, it's a wash out. I certainly don't want to cause confusion. I want to try to help Ron get the answer he's looking for.

[kbaknife]

I'm still using a particular melt of 3/8" thick 1095 that Aldo had about 5 years ago.
It has a nice bit of vanadium in it.
He had to sell all he had and I get it from the guy who bought it.
I mix it with "15N20" from Ray Kirk. It's actually 1075 with 3% nickel.
It's makes the best performing knife steel out of my shop.
OK - maybe not "the best", but works side by side with W1 or W2.

In the words of my good friend, Jerry Rados, "Jesus Christ can send a bar of steel down from Heaven.
It will only be as good as the heat treatment it gets on Earth".

[3212bend]

Thank you all for your input,i have always loved the looks of damascus but after reading a comment that damascus was for looks not function or durability  it about turned me against getting one.All of your hard earned knowledge will help in my hopes to own one ,Thankyou gentlemen

[Bobby Urban]

As informed above - Unless you are using it for surgical purposes or some high level cutting competition that does not allow it to be hit with a stone or steel every now and then - you will never notice.  But you will notice how darn cool they look while quartering game.

[LYONEL]

How does it compare for corrosion or rust resistance?

[Lin Rhea]

Damascus is slightly more corrosion resistant. It is similar to a gun barrel being "browned". It will rust but does pretty well under normal circumstances. Still need to wipe and oil it.

[LYONEL]

Is it normal for the tang to be Damascus or mild steel?
I have seen blanks advertised as having mainly mild steel tangs.

[Bobby Urban]

All my Damascus knives and I imagine most posted here have the same pattern right through the handle.  I can see why some might want to add some mild steel to the handle area to save as much of the hard work for areas that show but the weld would be a possible weak point and the extra effort just not worth it.  

A Damascus blade/billet looks very much like any other piece of steel when worked and ground.  It is not until the blade is etched with some form of acid that the pattern jumps out at you.  Some only etch the parts that show so you may be looking at a blade blank the is only showing pattern on 1/2 of the steel but the whole thing is Damascus.

[LYONEL]

Thanks for the explanation Bobby, I know very little about Damascus. I'm trying to find a blank that suits a small sheath on the side of a quiver I bought, While I have mainly been looking at ATS34 or D2 USA made blanks which are hard to find one that suits. I have seen a couple of Damascus one that go close. This is a bit of the discription that one company used to describe there blanks.

"We grind blades from 1/2" to 40" long. Our blades are Mar-Quenched in our state-of-the-art heat treating system for 20% greater toughness and superior edge holding. The tangs are usually mild steel".

They don't say how the tang is attached to the blade. I assume this process would be inferior?

[D.Ellis]

Making a blade to fit a sheath is a bit backwards from normal   :D  
I have not spent a good deal of time reading up on marquenching, but if they are using mild for the tangs, I'd be a smidgen suspicious about where else they take shortcuts.
Many of the makers here could probably make the blade you want.......maybe post a picture and dimentions?
Darcy

[kbaknife]

Lin did that recently.
But, then again, he ain't "normal".      

 

Originally posted by D.Ellis:
Making a blade to fit a sheath is a bit backwards from normal    :D    
Darcy

[LYONEL]

A bit backwards I know but here's some photos

   

     

Do these metals make a good Damascus?

" Material = (4) layers 5160, (3) layers 203E, (3) layers 52100, (3) layers 15N20 folded 5 times for 416 layer damascus."

[Lin Rhea]

   

[D.Ellis]

That sounds like Alabama Damascus's recipe, which I have heard nothing bad about. I have no experience with it however.
Darcy  

[Bladepeek]

That definitely sounds like Alabama Damascus's receipe. I've used quite a bit of it and like the blades I've finished up. My heat treat is probably pretty primitive, but the edge seems to hold up well to all my testing.

Kinfemakers Tim Zowada and Kevin Cashen and Steve Balk at Hansen Balk Heat Treating have made me a believer in mar-quenching. I just don't have the equipment to do it.

The high temp salts, where the blade is raised to the critical temp actually solidifies on the cool blade and acts a little like a thermal shock absorber until it remelts. The blade can be left to soak in the salt bath for the desired period of time with no danger of over-heating it.

When it is quenched in the 400 degree low temp salt, it is dropped very rapidly to 400 degrees and then held there so the transition from austintite to martinzite is more complete. It also comes out nice and clean since the only exposure to oxygen is while passing from the high temp tank to the low temp tank.

Anyway, that's the theory as explained to me and the blades I have had done that way have turned out very well.