self bow woods

[talkingcabbage]

What do you guys think of elm, ash, walnut, and black locust for self bows?  The power company came in about 3 weeks ago and cut down a lot of trees and branches around my uncle's land.  There's a literal ton or two of these woods in 8" to 24" diameter logs.  I want to use some for some self bows, but I haven't worked with these woods before in self bows.  I have made some laminated board bows before out of some of these woods, but never a self bow.  If I do decide to use these, what are some tips for proper drying?  It's been really cold here in Iowa the past couple of weeks (down to -30 with a wind chill).  Should I split and seal some staves, or let them go for a couple months then split?  I should mention that most of these logs are well over 6' in length, so I'm not too concerned about checks in the ends.  
I guess I'm wondering if I should let them dry naturally, or go split some now and dry them in my garage till I'm ready to use them?  

Thanks

Joe

[bjansen]

Joe,  I am sure there are some other guys on here that could tell you much more than me about selfbows...but per the Bowyer's bible all of those woods would make nice bows...Walnut probably being the least effective....but it will work.  

I would go out there, find 8" diameter or larger logs make fresh cuts on both sides(cutting them to length), seal the ends with paint, poly or anytype of sealer...then split them into staves..I would then put them in your garage to start the drying process...further down the line you can always rough cut a stave and put it in a heat box to get the moisture down to the desired level to start making a bow.  The Bowyer's bible, vol 1 is a good reference for this..

Best of luck..

[Shaun]

Black locust, elm, ash, walnut in descending order of usefulness for self bows. BUT, you live where there is lots of osage and once you try that, you will wonder why you ever messed with anything else.

Split, seal ends and store a few staves of these other woods for the future. Then get out there and look for some osage.

[Dean Marlow]

All the wood you mentioned will make good selfbows. Make them a little wider than Osage and you will be fine. Cut your logs to size and seal the ends of the logs with Poly or paint the ends with something and your good to go. If you put them in a warm place spray them to keep the bugs from eating them up. Dean

[Pat B]

All will make good self bows if the proper design is used with each. I would at least split the logs in half, seal the ends and place them is a place to dry slowly. I like spray shellac(shellac in a can also works but the shelf life is less) to seal bow wood but carpenters glue works well too. Pat

[talkingcabbage]

Shaun, I actually have a guy here at work that will let me cut as much osage as i want from his land.  We've got a ton of it here, you're right.  It's just that this stuff at my uncle's is already cut down!  Also, I'd have to borrow a chain saw, and that stuff is really hard.  I don't want to ruin someone's chain on it.  I agree, though.  I have tried one self bow out of osage and it works really well.  This stuff is just readily available, and the bowyer's  bible talks about how easy it can be to get the rings on some of these woods.  I was just looking for a good winter project right now.

on a side note, if (and when) I go to cut some of this osage, when is the best time?  winter (like now) or in the spring when the sap starts to return to the wood?

Joe

[Pat B]

With osage(and locust) winter is probably the best time. For the white woods(all but Locust I consider white wood) during the growing season is best because the bark will peel off and what's under is your bow back. There is a bit more work involved with the bark removal with wood that was cut after the growing season.
   The best time to collect wood, whether white wood or not is when it is available. It's just some times are better than others.    Pat

[talkingcabbage]

I guess that's what I was getting at Pat.  Peeling off the bark to get at that one ring, verses chasing it (in the white woods anyway)

Thanks for the advise!

Joe

[Springbuck]

Do it!  What have you got to lose?  I would seal, just because, even if it's  cold, the cold air is usually drier than warm air.

  Osage is premium wood, but elm will suprise you with how tough it is.  It isn't HARD, but it is stringy, springy and tough.

  BL is beautiful and I work with it a lot in hickory and bamboo-backed bow, and it is awesome.

  Ash  makes great longish flatbows that feel really good to shoot.

[George Tsoukalas]

All those woods will make fine bows. Seal the ends. Remember that black locust is best when the sapwood is removed. More info on my site. Jawge
 http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/

[John Scifres]

Ash and elm are my favorite of the ones mentioned.  I have made a couple from BL and it is good too.

Get to it pretty soon though since all will degrade pretty rapidly.  I'd definitely do it before it warms up again.

[talkingcabbage]

What about time for drying?  How long will a 2 1/2" stave take to dry, if I keep it in the rafters of my garage?  Is there a quicker way (other than paying a kiln) to dry?  My dad asked me the other day to make him one.  I think I've got him hooked  

[Pat B]

If you take the stave down to floor tiller stage(where you can bend each limb about 3" or 4")it will dry in a month or so in the dry winter weather. Some woods will take longer than others and a bit of experimentation will help you determine that. The longer you wait for the wood to cure the better but it can be done in a relatively short amount of time. Pat

[shamus]

those are good bow woods, depending on the design you use.

tim baker's list of bow woods is here:  http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/6213

..though a more complete list can be found in the Traditional Bowyer's Bible Vol.4

[talkingcabbage]

Pat, thanks.  I wondered if I could take it that far while it is still green, but wasn't sure.  I think I'm gonna try it.  If it doesn't work, all I'm out is time.  And I'll get some more experience while I'm at it.  That's something everyone can use, no matter how good we think we are!

Joe

[Pat B]

Be sure to seal the back if you take the bark off. I use spray shellac but wood glue will also work.  The moisture will go out of the belly and sides and shouldn't check there.       Pat

[talkingcabbage]

Didn't know that.  Thanks!

Joe

[Roy Steele]

Black Locust remove bark and sap wood split into staves,2 1/2"S buy 80"and store out of the sun.
  Elm,Ash,Wallnut remove the bark cover the back with what ever you did the ends with.Only take logs 8"or larger recut the ends.I cut them long for a reason.I put the ends up on saw horses tie a cinder block in the middle let it hang you will get some reflex in them with out heat.The closer you cut your staves into bow form the faster they will dry and the more reflex you will have.But don't take them down to much or you will have twist.This is as close to nataul reflex as you can get.Don't think your staves will look like U's but it can help.Seal the ends right away.Spray with pestiside to keep the bugs off.I spray again about year later.You don't really have to but all the work you put into your staves why take the chance.

[Roy Steele]

Take 8" Logs or bigger recut ends.Split into 2 1/2 staves.Cut to leanth.Seal the ends right right away.
Black Locust remove bark and sap wood.White wood remove,remove bark spray with pestaside.
  Store out of the sun.Let nature do the rest.

 I cut mine 80" for two resons.Cut them down to ruff bow form.Set them up between two saw horses.Tie a cinder block to middle let hang through drying.Now your staves will pick up some natural reflex.No heat means a more durble bow.Don't take down to close to bow form or your stave will swist.
  The other reason is when I think there dry I can cut 1,1/2"to 2" Off an end and used a meter to check it at the center of my stave.If it's not enough I weight.Do it untill this to it's right moister reading.
  I have very little exspreince with wallnut.