grizzly sticks

[herb haines]

i have the chance to carry grizzly sticks , these with out a doubt are some of the best shafts on the market . just looking for some thoughts from those who shoot them or who would like to .--- herb

[pdk25]

Just doing informal tests on my own, I shot grizzly stik safari's that weighted about 900 grains as well as axis full metal jacket 300 shafts with weight tube that weighed about 660 grains out of the same bow. The test was done with field points. The full metal jacket arrows outpenetrated the grizzly stik arrows by about an inch per arrow when shot into my block 4x4 target. I don't know how this correlates with arrows shot with broadheads into a live animal. I suspect based on other threads that have been posted on trad gang that the griz stik arrows may be more durable, but the full metal jacket arrows are pretty tough. It is more difficult to get higher weight shafts with the full metal jacket, but with weight tubes it can be done. I was only using the 3 grain per inch tubes sold at 3 rivers. I would attribute the difference in penetration primarily to the fact that the griz stik arrows have a fairly large diameter shaft at the tip. Griz stik's are probably easier to tune given the tapered shaft.

[jrchambers]

what poundage were you shooting thats a huge weight difference,  a 900 gr arow should be shot out of no less than 70lbs.  i dont think that a foam target can be related to tissue and bone,  i know a guy that shot 900gr grizlys in the same target, i shot 500 grain epics, the penetration was about the same but his were really tough to pull, you could tell they were hitting really hard.  of course a skinny shaft has more peneration potential, but the extreme weights are not acheiveable, like the safari shaft.

[Tim Schoenborn]

Originally posted by jrchambers:
what poundage were you shooting thats a huge weight difference

Bingo............

I shoot 945 Grain Safaris out of my 85lb Silvertip and they have no penetration issues. So many guys shooting arrows that are way to heavy for their bows. I shoot 685 grain Alaskans out of bows between 75 and 80 lbs and they smoke. And am still shooting over the minimum grain per lb issue.

These are the ultimate arrow out there in my opinion. They just need to be set up right.

Tim

[pdk25]

I'm not trying to argue, just reporting what I found.  My bow is about 67 pounds at my draw length, but I shoot 31 inch arrows.  Both arrows bare shaft well.  I believe there may some heating of the shaft component for the results on my target.  Despite this, the increased diameter of the tip almost undoubtedly contributed to the decreased penetration.  I could increase the weight of the full metal jacket shaft with tubes and believe that the penetration difference would increase.  This may not translate to a hunting situation, but the weight of the shaft isn't the issue, the penetration is.  As long as the weight of the shaft is safe for your bow.  Incidentally, Alaskans are spined to weak for my bow due to my arrow length but I shoot safari's and full metal jackets.  I just need 175 grain tips on the safari's to paper tune well.

[riot1013]

On a foam target increased diameter = increased surface area = increased friction = less penatration in a high friction foam target.  Pretty simple physics.  The difference between 700 and 900 grains is only like 13 grams.  That's really a very miniscule amount of weight when considering the friction caused by the foam.

[pdk25]

I agree that there is more friction.  I actually understand physics very well.  I also understand that the same amount of force applied over a smaller area will result in an increase in pressure and therefore have a higher likelihood of penetrating a surface with less loss of energy.  A broadhead on an arrow should nearly mitigate this effect but friction, albeit less than in a foam target will still be a factor.  I understand believing in a product and considering it to be the best, but it shouldn't be at the exclusion of other information.  As far as I know there are no objective tests that have been performed on these two different arrow types on animal tissue.  Perhaps Dr. Ashby would be willing to give it a try?  All that I am saying is that IF a lighter arrow can have similar penetration, and IF you can get it to tune from your bow, and IF it is tough enough for the job, and IF it costs about 2/3 as much, isn't it worth considering.  Reports that I shot 2 arrows and they didn't break really don't hold alot of weight without an objective study behind it.  And on the subject of penetration, almost undoubtedly both arrow types would easily penetrate well enough to kill just about anything on the planet.  Perhaps the grizzlystik arrows are the best out there for hunting.  I guess I'm just skeptical.  Even if they are they best arrow on the planet, 90 dollars per have dozen bare shafts is a little steep.  That being said, it didn't stop me from buying some.

[Bjorn]

Converting grains to grams and calling it miniscule is pretty clever. Why don't you just express it as fractions of pounds! LOL!!
As a percentage the difference between 700 and 900 is downright huge by any standard.
Fact is foam targets are designed to stop arrows so all we really found out is that the target does it's job.

[jrchambers]

you would have to shoot the two arows at the same weight out of the same bow with perfect flight in to real tissue many times to get a consistant penetration average.   then shoot the 900 grain grizly stick with a compatible bow 85-90lbs,  if you can get a axis at that weight with good flight, compare the two, then start going down in draw weight and corisponding arow weight with the axis to find the lesser weight that will match the penetration of the heavyer larger diameter shaft. My guess is that you wont be able to get a axis shaft heavy enough with good flight to match the grizly stik, this is just my opinion,  a 900 grain arow out of a 67 lb bow is probably way too heavy while the 600gr arow could be just right for your bow.  i shoot a 67lb curve and it likes 620 grain arows i have shot some 940 grain grizly stick with it and it felt like it had a hard time pushing it i had a sever amount of drop at 20 yards im shure it would do the trick on most animals but if i was shooting at a moose i would not be confident with them, if i was shooting a 90lb bow i would expect nothing less than that arow laying on the ground on the back side,  i would not expect that from my 620s  it could and probably would happen but i wouldnt expect it every time.

[herb haines]

folks , heavy arrows don't bother me i shoot arrows over 700 gr from a 53# bow and fly great . you just have to shoot them for a while and your brain compensates for the weight , out to 30 yards distance i practice at they work fine and these are hand made wooden arrows .

from talking to friends and checking other forums i will be carrying them .Silver Flames in rge front and BigHonker Shields on the back and you have a very deadly combo--- herb

[riot1013]

Ok sorry that I stepped on so many toes.  What I am saying is that considering the impact force on a FOAM target, I am not talking tissue, even 900 grains is a small amount of mass considering the amount of heat and friction being developed over the surface area of the arrow.  All I was responding to was the guy questioning why a heavier Grizzlystix doesn't out-penetrate a lighter Axis.  On tissue this is obviously different because of the surface tension of tissue as well as it's inherent lubricity.  Sorry if I upset someone on my first post.  That definately wasn't the intent.  A lot of people forget about friction when they talk penetration in foam targets.

[Bjorn]

2 good points riot, and does clear up a couple of 'penetretion in foam' issues that were not completely clear to me before.

[laddy]

I used grizzly sticks 27''bop out of 58lb longbow Half breed copy Schulz tiller.  they fly perfect.  I shot a buck broke ribs going in and going out lost the arrow, but i found the deer 80 yards from the hit.  I don't know what all the fuss is about.