Vine Maple

[PapaB]

Is vine maple a good bow wood?  The reason I ask is because where I live it is all over the place.  If so, what kind of bow specs can you give me so I can build a bow out of vine maple.

[B M A]

Yes it is a good bow wood. John Strunk has built many a bows from it.  I like to find 4"-6" diameter shoots.  You can use smaller.  When you cut it mark the side that is facing up and use that for the back of the bow. That is the side that was in tension as it grew.  So alot of times as it dries it will gain some reflex. The other side will make a decent bow but you will get more string follow. I like using that side for lighter weight bows.  After you cut it seal the ends good. I like to rip it in half on the bandsaw, help dry more evenly. I sometimes when it is green will ruff shape the limbs so they flex easier, take and tie it down with rope on a 4x4 and block up the ends to induce some relex while it dries.  Do that and set it aside somewhere dry.  In warmer spring summer months you can start building in about 30-35 days.  One nice thing with vine maple is for the back just peal the bark and go.  It takes stain very nicely or just burnish it and it looks good. They make a nice shooting bow and outwest here we have an abundent supply.

Where are you at in Oregon?
Brock

[PapaB]

BMA, thanks for the good reply.  I live in McMinnville wich is an hour southwest of Portland.

[Maxximusgrind]

Well howdy neighbor,
 It is pretty strange that you dont see more vine maple bows around here.Its almost a weed,so the price is right.
 Robert

[Curt Brisky]

Brock was right one.  I've made over 100 VM bows and can get 70# easily.  At 68" long and 2" wide at the fades this helps to keep the set out of the wood for that draw weight.  I usually let it dry 8-10 months. It has been about 15 years when Greg Harris and I wrote VM articles in the Primitive Archer. If you look in their archives you can find the articles. If you go to my site at  www.briskybows.com  on the home page click on "tips and thoughts".  There is a thread on how to build a VM bow.  Any questions please ask.........Curt

[Curt Brisky]

If you want to see some VM staves to know what to look for go to my site  www.briskybows.com  and click on "bow stuff" you will see some VM staves. When you cut them be sure and tie them down because the will creep and then your straight stave will have to be steamed back into straight.  Finding a straight 6 ft, clear with no limbs or knees is more rare than people think. Cut it with a bandsaw and seal the ends.  Happy VM huntin'

[carver]

does vine maple grow in british columbia too? around vancouver?

[carver]

oh yeah, stanley park

[Ed Isaacs]

Not to hijack this thread, but you've got a nice site, Curt!

[Curt Brisky]

Thanks Ed.  Carver, yes VM grows around the southwestern part of B.C.  Look for Black Locust, Cascara, Pacific Yew, Dogwood, and Ocean Spray.  You can walk a VM grove for a whole afternoon and find maybe a couple of staves that are clear with no branches or knees.  It's worth it when you find it........happy VM huntin'
 www.briskybows.com

[carver]

I had no idea black locust grew over here, but i have seen lots of honey locust on vancouver island.  The yew i've used plenty, but dogwood, no.  I also hear laburnum is a great wood, similar to yew, but i haven't tried it yet for bows.

[Curt Brisky]

The closest wood I seen to Yew around here is Cascara.  You leave the sap wood on like Yew and back the bow with Cascara. As a finished bow it is as light a balsa wood. Feels kinda scary to shoot. I've made up to 60# bows with it and had a couple blow up due to denting the back. That is why from now on I will always back with rawhide. Another wood around the Northwest is the choke cherry or wild cherry. It is hard and you can find it straight. I've only been able to get about 55# without having to get too wide a limb. Keep the bow minimum 68" long for over 50#

[carver]

okay, so i've got some VM now, found a ravine where it grows like mad.  

What about the stuff that grows straight up?  No tension or compression wood in that, exactly.  

I have been scouring Vancouver city like mad, walking the streets in a grid, pretty much, and i have seen only one tree of yew.  VM, on the other hand, is quite plentiful in the right spots.  I cut 6 staves the other day, and you would never know they were gone!  Whereas with that yew tree...i could only get one branch.  

So, this wood will have a fairly crowned back, on 2" diameter staves...but being tension-strong, i guess this is not a problem?

Also, what is your experience with heat tempering this wood?  
Thanks

[Curt Brisky]

A 2" vm will give you a crowned back.  You will get more string follow the heavier the draw weight because there is not enough surface area across the limb to share the tension and compression. I usually like 3" vm or larger.  The straight stuff still makes a good bow. Finding a tension stave of vm is the best way to go but a straight stave is still a great piece of wood. It will still have tension quality. In a perfect world the tension stave will get you 5-10 FPS. I like to shape out the profile of the bow from the stave.  Now I steam the handle and fadeout area to pull down into reflex on my bench. This will counter the string follow.  VM does really well with steam. I have used heat to bend VM to straighten but not to recurve.  Steam is best for recurving. Steam for about 45 minutes before bending. Be sure and tie down your VM as it is curing or the straight stave you cut will not look like it was when you cut it 8 months ago.  Save yourself some steaming by tying it down.  Now is the latest time to harvest VM before the leaf comes.

[carver]

i'm on it!  I've got 5 staves cut and waiting for me in the ravine.  I just walk over and get em.  Last night i saw a hint by john strunk saying, peel 'em green.  He says he can make a vm bow in 10 days from the saw-day.  

So last night i peeled the first one and today i split it.  The split, which i began in the center of one end, taking note of the tension side, stayed good for almost half the bow, then veered into the compression side, so that the other end of the bow ended up only 1/2 " thick from the crown.  I used a hatchet to start the split, and a roofing hatchet as a froe.  The thin end of the compression wood seems to have curled into some reflex.  

So as per john strunk and my own experience, i'm gonna rough these out with the hatchet tonight if it doesn't rain too badly.  Then, as per your advice, i'll strap them down and let them cure out that way.  maybe smear white glue all over the backs of them before strapping them down, to try to direct the flow of moisture out of the wood.  Maybe oil.

[Curt Brisky]

I haven't needed to seal the wood except for the ends.  The first time I harvested VM I split the logs and ruined a lot of VM. I now use a bandsaw.  As far a peeling them green you will get more surface area to dry and the brown under layer of bark comes off easier. Taking the bark off can also be done when dry. It scrapes easy when dry. I"m not sure about 10 days after the saw. I've made them green and the string follow was huge. Again it depends on the draw weight you want. I have made them 4 months dry and made a good bow.