Backing before or after tillering?

[Friends call me Pac]

When building a red oak board bow or any selfbow for that matter, do you glue the backing on when the board is still flat or do you add after tillering is done?

I read neckties from the thrift store make good backing and have secured a few neat patterns for my next attempt at a board bow.

[red hill]

Pac, that's a question I've contemplated also.  Hope someone will clue us in. I've made a couple of board bows myself, the latest which is turning out a little light.  Was wondering if adding a backing would help increase draw weight.
Stan

[R.W.]

I added a silk backing to my first longbow after a splinter appeared on the back.

glued the splinter down with slow set epoxy, and then applied a layer of silk fabric to the back with TB III.

The bow still hold together, even with all the novice mistakes I made on it!  

This backing added nothing to draw weight.

What rawhide or sinew would add, I don't know.

[walkabout]

the ties are pretty good cus theyre silk and silk is strong. ive done both gluing backings before tillering and after floor tillering, and both worked. generally adding a backing wont increase the draw weight of a bow, and using materials which might ad draw weight chances overpowering and crushing the belly wood.since you add the backing to the back of the bow, on a board bow it will be flat no matter when you add it. selfbows are the same, with the exception of the back being rounded in the case of some tree staves. burlap is pretty good for backings too, it takes a bit of glue to get a good bond though so if you use it dont be stingy. always remember to let the bow sit for a day or so to ensure the glue has completely dried or you might end up detaching the backing or end up with alot of set due to the wood being damp.

[No-sage]

If you finish tillering it without the need for a backing, why would feel the need to add one after?

[walkabout]

best way to combat the bows turning out weak is to go as slow as you need to and check tiller with a block doohickey, i even take pics after getting them tillered every 2 inches or so then compare it on a photoshop program against grids to be sure i dont miss anything. sinew will add draw weight but its best suited to bows that are short, and have limbs that arent wide. adding sinew will likely reflex the bow. hope this helps.oh and be sure youre rounding and then burnishing the corners of board bows too, this will help keep those splinters from lifting.

[Pat B]

For a beginner I'd suggest putting the backing on before tillering. It makes for good insurance against splinters lifting.

[Innocente]

recently been debating this heavily myself.  i back every single bow i make, because a poor quality bowyer like myself needs all the insurance i can get, but after backing with TB, i lose the option to heat-bend.  i'm thinking of completing my next wood bow, heat bending it, then backing it.  haven't tried it that way, i'll let you guys know how it turns out.

in the middle of a hickory longbow right now, and i linen backed it right after i cut out it's shape.  now nearing the end of tillering, and it's picked up some set, which i can't heat gun out because it's backed.

i hear people say this all the time on forums, "why bother backing it at all?" and i guess i don't understand.  why would i NOT back it?

[walkabout]

everyone has their preference. i back mine because i dont have access to tree staves right now and board staves i can get always have at least 2 runoffs in the grain. backing is just piece of mind to me that if the wood does fail it will make alot of noise when it first cracks, and the backings help hold the pieces together so i dont injure bystanders.i recently built a bow for my sister that was needed to be 35# @ 25-26 inches, and if it werent for the burlap backing it would have been scrap, as it cracked in 2 spots. i filled them with superglue, and wrapped them with some wool, and kept tillering and it came out great, as a matter of fact that thing is so accurate that i amazed myself. had it not had a backing it would have blown apart for sure.

[George Tsoukalas]

I only back for a reason and when I do it's immediately after long string tillering and before stringing with the short string. If the intention of the backing is to protect the back of the bow why wait until it is tillered? More info on  my site. Jawge
 http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/

[Brent Hill]

I'm having the same issue.  I'm playing with osage billets that I've put a 3r takedown on.  Cut it to 60 inches and plan to put sinew on for strength and insurance and reduce the static tips a bit to 58in.  The tree was cut in Jan so I have some time to wait but planned to put my first layer  with TB3 for insurance because of my "great skills"  skills as a budding bowyer.  (You can laugh now)

[walkabout]

theres a post about sinew and someone else said they exclusively use tb3 with sinew, rather than hide glue.

[Brent Hill]

I've read it and thinking about putting the first layer of sinew on before tillering as pac suggested as versus backing after the bow is tillered.  Sorry about the confusion.

[Loren Holland]

i am no expert but i back and then tiller, you back for protection.  but there are backs that prevent splinter, and then there are are backs that work too.  choose what type when considering raising lbs., but remember that more goes into arrow speed than just lbs. (i recently made a kids bow for a 5 yr old, and was pleasantly surprised that its a screamer speedwise, i racked my brain to figure out why, and realized that it was wide for its size, took low set therefore, but still had narrow tips and limb mass.  the string angle was perfect for a little guy draw, and there would be no stack. put it all together and even a paper backed red oak, can be fast) the point of the speed comment is that, you back for protection, and if you don't have to, then don't so you can have the most efficient bow, if you do back then choose what won't over power your core, if use bamboo with ipe, but paper or thin pecan over oak, and don't have false expectations about what a backing will do, after all they are heavier and so is the glue
last if you back after tillering, you will have to  readjust tiller anyways, unless  you are real good at tapering or thinning

[yewsage]

so as you can see:  lotsa variables.  Like Innocente, i like using a heat gun to temper wood where i can.  If you make a laminate bow, you must either heat temper the belly piece before applying it, or just pass on heat tempering altogether, as it causes delamination.  Some guys tiller bows all the way out to 28" without backing, meaning the back is safe...and then go ahead and apply silk to it just for safety's sake.  And by doing things that way, they are able to do cool stuff like heat tempering the wood.

... as you can see, i'm a big fan of heat tempering!

[jbat73]

i've made 10+ red oak board bows, only backed one with rawhide. a 68" bend in the handle flatbow, only reason i backed that one was because it was for the ex wife and she wanted the extra protection against breakage. i brought it to floor tiller before i backed it, and it worked out fine. just got to remember to rough up the back a little before applying rawhide, i used titebond 2.

[red hill]

Thanks, guys.  I should have remembered that adding a backing wouldn't add draw weight.  And I have seen through experience that a backing does help when a bow fails.
Thanks again,
Stan