Author Topic: Meet "Cherry Pie" - A Single Lam Longbow  (Read 609 times)

Offline Dick in Seattle

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Meet "Cherry Pie" - A Single Lam Longbow
« on: May 14, 2010, 11:43:00 PM »
I recently had the urge to try a one lam bow build, just to see how it would come out. I had been thinking about it for awhile, then came across some info on a one lam bow that Rudderbows is now offering. Naturally, with that impetus, I had to try it. It came out very well and was a super easy build, leading me to consider doing another as a buildalong, combining it with information on Cherry Pie's build and including advice on how it could be done by a beginner with minimal equipment. I'm going to go ahead with that project but that's for another page at a later time. I have begun, however, and there are comments and pictures of Cherry Pie's build already posted through a link on Cherry Pie's page in the Gallery of my site at  www.oldpharttsarchery.com.    You might appreciate these build pics and narrative if Cherry Pie's single lam build approach interests you. This page will be substantially expanded with the next project.

Meantime, here is Cherry Pie. The name derived from the fact that this was rather an experiment, with no certainty of how it was going to come out. For this reason, and because I had selected cherry as the wood, I found myself thinking of the old song, "Can She Bake a Cherry Pie, Billy Boy, Billy Boy?". That's too much to write on a bow limb, so she became just Cherry Pie.

The layup is:
.040 clear glass
.297 cherry wood parallel
.040 glass
Total wood stack: .297
Total stack: .377

Note: There's nothing magical about the wood stack of .297. I was shooting for .300 and missed by .002.

66" and 35@28 (30 at my 25" draw)

I'm quite pleased with this result. When I opted for .300 for the wood lam, it was purely a best guess based on previous bows. I wasn't sure if going to one lam would change the results much or not. As it turned out, it didn't.

 Cherry performs well. The draw is just a hair stiffer than you might expect, I'm sure due to the one lam and no taper, but is smooth and certainly not unpleasant. She seems quite accurate and fairly flat shooting. I got an average hand release chrono reading, 9 gr. pp arrow, of 145, which is exactly at the 115 fps plus your draw weight expected of Hill bows. That figure would go up if tested in a machine with mechanical release. I'd shoot 3D with her any time.

Cherry is actually more of a flatbow than a real Hill style, having a bit wider limbs with a shallower core.

 

 
Unstrung... 1/2" of string follow.

 
 
Note the red string. I tried something new... a one color string. It looks good but I don't recommend it. I ran into a small problem... it's harder to keep track of the two bundles of strings as you twist. It sorted out of course, but if you ever decide to try it, it might help if you expected this in advance.  The cherry riser is subtle, but attractive. There is a slight contrast between the limb cherry and the riser cherry, just enough to add a little interest.

 
 
Laced wrap.

 
    
Tips came out nicely shaped.


 
OPA #20
66"
35@28

Yep... #20... now that's kind of mile stone.  
I'm real pleased with the nice square fade ends.
   

 
Full draw. That short riser resulted in the major bend coming lower on the limb than I might like, but the long stiff tips really flip the arrows out.

 

 OK... I like this bow. From it, I learned several things:

A one lam bow, at least at reasonable weights, is very feasible. If I were building the same bow again, I'd add a little taper.
I usually use longer, more gradual fade risers. I tried a short one here, and while it works I think the action might be a bit better if I'd used longer.
You'd have to go into my building notes to get more information on this, but I also learned that it is possible to cut a good lam for a single lam bow on a table saw, without using a drum sander to fine tune multiple laminations. I'm going to try this on my next project.

I love projects where I expand my horizons.

Dick
Dick in Seattle

"It ain't how well the bow you shoot shoots, it's how well you shoot the bow you shoot."

Offline Apex Predator

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Re: Meet "Cherry Pie" - A Single Lam Longbow
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2010, 05:43:00 AM »
Great job Dick, and thanks for sharing your journey!
I didn't claw my way to the top of the food chain to eat vegetables!

Offline walkabout

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Re: Meet "Cherry Pie" - A Single Lam Longbow
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2010, 12:52:00 PM »
thats one sweet bow. im glad you posted this because i have trouble making sense of the taper/parallel lam formulas and want to build a lam bow at some point. your measurements make perfect sense though. this formula would be perfect for a bow for my sister  :D
Richard

Offline Trux Turning

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Re: Meet "Cherry Pie" - A Single Lam Longbow
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2010, 06:13:00 PM »
Nice bow! I like the way it looks at your draw length too. I have a Bear grizzly that has one lam and is 60#s @ 28"- so heavier weights are possible.

Online kennym

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Re: Meet "Cherry Pie" - A Single Lam Longbow
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2010, 07:50:00 PM »
It looks good Dick!!

20 already huh? You goin pro on us?  :thumbsup:
Stay sharp, Kenny.

   https://www.kennysarchery.com/

Offline Traxx

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Re: Meet "Cherry Pie" - A Single Lam Longbow
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2010, 01:13:00 AM »
Dick,
I dont know if its my Puter er what,but i cant get on to your site.?
Target archery is seeing how far away you can get and still hit the bull's eye. Bowhunting is seeing how close you can get and never miss your mark.

Offline Dick in Seattle

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Re: Meet "Cherry Pie" - A Single Lam Longbow
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2010, 11:02:00 AM »
Traxx...    should work...  I'll paste in the link several ways...  basic, main page address is:

 www.oldpharttsarchery.com


Here it is as a paste in:

 http://oldpharttsarchery.com/


and here as a "shortlink":

 http://tinyurl.com/29e78gg

One of those ought to work for you.   Please let me know.   You can email me direct at:

[email protected]
Dick in Seattle

"It ain't how well the bow you shoot shoots, it's how well you shoot the bow you shoot."

Offline frank bullitt

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Re: Meet "Cherry Pie" - A Single Lam Longbow
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2010, 01:40:00 PM »
Nice Bow, Dick! I recently read Rob D.'s post about his Rudderbow also.

I remember  a bow that Dan Quillian sold that was of a single lam of hickory, under clear glass. A friend of mine had one, 60", 50lbs@28".

It was made for the primitive/rendezvous/renaissance folks. It was a good shooter, and he was a succesful hunter, with it!

Offline wharvey

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Re: Meet "Cherry Pie" - A Single Lam Longbow
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2010, 03:13:00 PM »
Dick,

This is very much like the bow "build along" I saw in an issue of Traditional Bow Hunter from a few years back. They even used a shorter riser but I don't remember what type of wood. I always wondered how it would perform, now I know.

Any idea what using a different thickness of fiberglass would do to the pull? I also wonder if it would be possible to cut a lam from a piece of bamboo flooring.

BTW, a great looking bow.
Bill

Martin Howatt Hunter 35#@28"
Martin Hatfield 55#@28"
Grey Ghost 40#@28"

Offline Dick in Seattle

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Re: Meet "Cherry Pie" - A Single Lam Longbow
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2010, 03:29:00 PM »
Bill.... couple of thoughts...  

First, obviously, changing the glass thickness would change the pull, rather drastically.  In general (consider that repeated numerous times), it seems to be accepted that a difference of .001 in the glass will equal a pound, while a difference of .003 in wood will equal a pound.   I'm very careful in building to mike my glass.  You buy it in .005 increments, i.e. .040, .045, .050 etc.  However, it doesn't come out of the manufacturer that exact.  I frequently find myself working with .037 rather than .040 or .043 rather than .045.   Since the glass makes such a difference, it's important.

I think (dangerous) that if I were to do the same thing but with .043 or .045 glass, I'd end up with a pretty nice bow in the area of  45 to 50 pounds at 28".  That's a nice working weight for most healthy shooters.

As to the bamboo flooring.  I love the stuff and have a ton of it. It works really great in multiple thin laminations.  I was lucky and got mine in just over 6' lengths instead of 38", so it's great for making full length lams.   However, I'm a little nervous about using it in a one lam approach.   I tried using it to make an all wood/no glass bow and found that the processed bamboo flooring, unlike raw bamboo with the nodes on, the stuff that is usually used as backing on wood bows, takes a set if you blink at it.   I decided not to use it in that application.  I'm concerned that that tendency might show up in the thicker one lam application.

Fortunately, we have many choices in wood.  My thinking in the current "one lam" phase of my experimentation has been toward developing a buildalong for a really simple bow that can be made by a beginner with minimal tools and using wood available locally.  You can get 6' boards of cherry and walnut from the local Lowe's, and most any hardwood supplier can fix you up with hickory.  All of these will, in my opinion, perform just as well for this purpose as bamboo.

If you hang around the boards for another couple of weeks, maybe a month, I hope to have that buildalong done.  Stay tuned....
Dick in Seattle

"It ain't how well the bow you shoot shoots, it's how well you shoot the bow you shoot."

Offline Traxx

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Re: Meet "Cherry Pie" - A Single Lam Longbow
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2010, 04:53:00 PM »
Thanxx Dick.
Target archery is seeing how far away you can get and still hit the bull's eye. Bowhunting is seeing how close you can get and never miss your mark.

Offline wharvey

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Re: Meet "Cherry Pie" - A Single Lam Longbow
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2010, 09:40:00 PM »
Dick,

Thanks for the info. Didn't realize that glass thickness made that big of a contribution to draw weight.

What do you think about on of the "Bow Making Hickory stave for unbacked bows" that Rudderbows sell? They are between 1-1/2 & 1-3/4 wide and about an inch thick. I'd think this could be cut into a couple of lams. At $30 I'd think they'd be worth a try.

I'll be doing a Dryad bowblank when it comes in. After which I might just give one of these a try. Or maybe actually try a bamboo backed bow. They sure do look nice.
Bill

Martin Howatt Hunter 35#@28"
Martin Hatfield 55#@28"
Grey Ghost 40#@28"

Offline BenBow

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Re: Meet "Cherry Pie" - A Single Lam Longbow
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2010, 09:50:00 PM »
Nice!  "Can She Bake a Cherry Pie, Billy Boy, Billy Boy?". Boy that brought back memories of the old one room school house I went to.
But his bow will remain steady, and his hands will be skillful; because of the hands of the Mighty One of Jacob, because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel,  (Genesis 49:24 [NETfree])

Offline Dick in Seattle

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Re: Meet "Cherry Pie" - A Single Lam Longbow
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2010, 12:02:00 PM »
Wharvey.... if you can get a piece of hickory with good grain and 1" thick, you should get two one lam bows out of it, especially if you use a thin curf blade.

Benbow... carefuly what you say, man.    You're making us both look pretty long in the tooth!  8^)
Dick in Seattle

"It ain't how well the bow you shoot shoots, it's how well you shoot the bow you shoot."

Offline Fourarrows

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Re: Meet "Cherry Pie" - A Single Lam Longbow
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2010, 07:45:00 PM »
Very informative. Thank you.

Offline frank bullitt

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Re: Meet "Cherry Pie" - A Single Lam Longbow
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2010, 08:31:00 PM »
Wharvey, buy a hickory pick handle at the hardware. Also, look around at the pallets in you area. Around here they are made of hickory, red elm, and sycamore.

Here in Hoosier state, there is alot of potential hardwoods available. Alot of Sawmills in the state also.

Offline walkabout

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Re: Meet "Cherry Pie" - A Single Lam Longbow
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2010, 01:06:00 AM »
im real interested in the possibility of a build along, the simplicity of a single lam would be great for me since i havent had any experience with lam/glass bows.
Richard

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