First try at hickory backed ipe. some advice on twist?

[John Cooper]

This is my first time for a couple things.  I'm branching out from making selfbows with this HBI in a mild reflex deflex profile.  I'm also using bike inner tubes for clamps.  And I'm also using titebond III for the first time.  

 

When I unwrapped the seran wrap, It was immediately obvious that it was twisted.  Looking at my workbench now, I can see the warp in the middle. I just need to make a clamping jig with some more stable 2X4s.

   

My question is this: should I proceed with making the bow to see how it shoots or call it firewood?  It looks like it lines up through the handle.  I also realize that some painter's tape and less glue will make clean-up a lot easier!  (and yes, I know I need to clean my shop!!)

Thanks!

[vanillabear?]

[John Scifres]

You'll be fine.

[DEATHMASTER]

It is a great way to wet your teeth on the process.
I have seen many that looked like they would never shoot but when pulled back they tracked great and shot even better.
Keep going.

[John Cooper]

Whew!  Thanks for your votes.  I'm feeling better about it already.  I will proceed.  I have a friend who just told me "when making bows, I think you have to make all the mistakes in the book."  Everyone starts out that way I guess.  hahaa

~John

[Roy from Pa]

Looks ok here. I can't work with IPE, it messes me all up.

[Bruce Prosser]

I have had some trouble with TBIII. I now always use a two part epoxy such as T-88 and Urac 185.

Your work looks good to me. I have had a similar problem and wish I did not cut it down into a youth bow now.

My nephew loves the bow tho.

Blessings

[fujimo]

hey john
i have made a number of hickory/ipe bows now- i love them fast, light- i like more of a elb design with some backset induced in the layup.
i also didnt want to go the whole route of compressors etc, so first tried the japanese method of twine/cord and long flat wedges- with moderate success. then went to using readily available rubber bands( will post pics as soon as i get back- out of the country till the end of the week.) cut a form from some 2 x 8 lumber. drilled holes about 2" below the sawn profile about every 2" for the full length of the form. cut some dowell to about 5" lengths. stuck them through the holes( snug fit neccessary here) so that i had about 1.5" each side of the form.
laid saran wrap, got the ipe floor tillered, laid the backing, urac, and ipe stave. and then "elasticated" the whole deal. first elastics just across(transverse) and then diagonally in both directions, and then transverse again. i have probably done a good dozen bows in this manner on this form now, and not one failure simple , quick and easy, not too much mess.
back to your minor problem, the first bow or two out of this method also came out with a bit of twist in them( they still shoot well though!!)
 i figured because i was working from one side if the form , my natural inclination was to reach over , hook the elastic , pull over and hook the near side, consequently all the alastics were slightly unevenly "loaded" all on the same side.
 i simply went to alternating the hook up- and the problem was immediatly solved.
i fear that is what has happenned with your tube wrap.
one is obviously wrapping in one direction only so the uneven load naturally puts a slight twist in it.
if you still like the versatility and simplicity of your system , you could try and use to bands, wrapping in opposite directions simultaneously(sp!) , so criss crossing all the way up the bow- kind of like a roman sandle.
if done with same size and same stretch on the bands, and done simultaneously, the uneven pressures should balance each other out.
all a tad complicated in the explanation, but when i post the pis, you'll see the simplicity of it.
good luck
wayne

[John Cooper]

Well...It exploded.  :(   It's been a while since I've done that!  Osage selfbows are so tough.

Come to find out, I didn't get to test out the twist.  When I went to put it in short brace height, the hickory delaminated.  I didn't rough it up enough I'm thinking.  Nothing salvageable except the learning that occurred!  This just means that I get to try again even sooner.

Thanks for your help.  I'll try posting more often on here and show you the next one.

~John

[4est trekker]

Sorry to hear that about your bow.  You said you used TiteBond III in your first post and that you "didn't rough it up enough" in your last post.  However, TBIII needs very smooth, void-less mating surfaces to adhere properly.  It's just the opposite of most common epoxies in that it has almost zero gap-filling properties.

Again, sorry to hear about your bow.

[Pat B]

Sorry you lost this bow but you did learn from it. Will you post pics of the break. I save most of my disasters and mistakes to study later. You can learn a lot from these "failures".
  I would like to see pics if you have them!
 
 I have never had a glue failure with any TiteBond glues. Flat, smooth, well mated surfaces is what you want with TB glue. I've used it on many backings/bellies combos, all with success.

[fujimo]

condolences mate.
ipe also needs a good wipe down with acetone- i always give it a bunch of wipe downs with successive clean rags.
i like urac- tad more pricey though.but no heat cure-just warm room temp.
good luck
wayne

[Jeremy]

Sorry to hear about the bow.

 

Originally posted by 4est trekker:
However, TBIII needs very smooth, void-less mating surfaces to adhere properly.

That should be repeated around here every so often!  When the surfaces are properly prepared, the wood will give out before the glue joint.

[John Cooper]

That's very interesting about it not needing a roughing up.  It kinda goes against my thinking on glue.  I used my thickness planer to make it into laminations and right before I glued it up, I used a sanding block to with 60 grit paper to get a fresh surface.  A buddy told me to wipe it off with denatured alcohol.  I'd heard acetone, too, but I don't like working with the stuff.    Do you think the alcohol might have been the problem?  I'm planning on using a friend's thickness sander to make lams next time.  I'm thinking that'll help.

I'll try to get pictures up.  It looks like the glue didn't penetrate the ipe at all. In the break, there's absolutely no ipe stuck to the hickory!  I have enough ipe for one or two more bows.  After that, I think I'll ditch ipe.  I hate using a respirator...but you'd better believe I wear a it with this wood!!!  

This week isn't looking good for making a new bow, but I'll try to document this next build better.

Thanks for all your input!

~John

[vanillabear?]

[Bob Barnes]

John, sorry to hear it broke... I broke one yesterday at 27 1/2"...it happens.  I think it was just more than the ERC could handle...smelled good though.  I'm tillering a snaky Ipe bow right now and quit at 27" tonight...I'm gun shy now... LOL.

Pat, I have a pic of the exploded bow but need your e-mail address to send it.

[Pat B]

Bob, my e-mail [email protected]
  Thanks!

[Bob Barnes]

Pat, I sent you a pretty good picture of the damage...minus a piece or two that I couldn't find... Bob