Centershot Red Oak Board Bow

[Dublin Joe]

I've marked out a proposed cutaway on this 3/4"x1 1/2"x6' red oak board.

 

With a riser glued on between the outermost lines (7") I'll have a 4" grip and reinforcement of the arrow shelf area.

I placed the arrow shelf 3/4" above center lengthwise and in the center horizontally.

Does this look kosher?

[John Scifres]

I'd say 1-1/2" wide is too narrow for 66" NTN drawn to 26"+.  I suspect you will end up with t alot of string follow.  I'd get the bow tillered before worrying about the handle.

[Dublin Joe]

Yeah, you're right.

Saving the handle for last, do you think this design is sufficient for 72" ntn?

[John Scifres]

Yes

[Dublin Joe]

I got to work today.  It's 71" ntn and 1 1/2" at the fades.  I've gone for centershot so from the front it looks doomed.  The riser is mahogany.  Let me know if the squared off bottom is a bad thing.  I didn't want too much stiffness so I went minimalist.

 

For the grip I'm copying a mortising chisel which feels good in the hand.  I won't shape it until after tillering.

 

 

The limbs are tapered along the edges and the belly.  Since my bandsaw isn't that good for true cuts I taper cut everything on the tablesaw.  This method removes nearly all the frustration I'd experienced previously.

 

It's bending a couple of inches on the floor so I cut nocks before closing up shop.  Tomorrow I'll put the long string on it and get started, hopefully ending with the short string before the mosquitoes take over.

Joel

[Loren Holland]

Dublin,
Don't worry about the cutting the rest till you get tillered. you can pick the looser limb for the top and save yourself some work and draw weight.
notice the difference in profile between yours and John's bows. John chose a classic centered handle, with tapers on both sides from the fade into the handle. Even though he achieves close to center, he can't cut all the way to center, because he has reduce both sides of the handle. (there is nothing wrong with this, it is a great looking bow. i think its easier to glue on a leather rest when using this design than to cut a rest)Also notice that John's design allows him to use a shorter riser. his is 8".
Your bow is dangerously thin around the rest, because you tapered into the handle from the side opposite the rest also, and you cut to center at the same time as tapering in from the other side. your design requires a longer riser, because there is less taper into the riser width wise (which on John's bow kinda doubles as a cut out for a rest, and gets him closer to center) on your bow you have to start the cut out for the rest at the thickest part of the riser. Don't cut your rest while the thickness of the riser is fading into the belly.
i may have decieved you with the picture.  Yes, you can cut a good ways into a board. I still leave an inch all the way around the rest though. I do that by not tapering in from the opposite side, leaving about an inch (or half of the fade width, depending on the density of the wood). i use a circle template to draw in 1 inch all the way around the rest at every angle. then i shape the locator grip around those marks. this way you can cut to center, still insure safety, and make the most use of the space within your riser for a grip.
hope that makes sense. i will try to find a picture of marking the rest, its hard to write out what i can see in my head sometimes;)
oh, i use the tablesaw in the way you describled also...my band saw is a POS
Last, the squared off bottom part of the riser is a new one to me.I don't know what to say. it doesn't give you a bottom fade. I think you might pop off the riser from the bottom limb.on the other hand if you fade into the board itself (which is what i do usually, instead of adding a tri-lam to insure the riser stays attached to the core/belly)it might work, but you will have to insure that the handle doesn't bend, or you will have trouble.

[walkabout]

ive built bows from 1x2's and all of them were between 60 and 72 inches, the most set one took was 1 3/4", which still isnt too bad. longer bows are better starting out, but theres no reason you couldnt have gone with a 66" bow IMO. my bows however arent pyramid design so john may very well be right about that if yours is. also i gotta agree about the shelf, i dont do any shaping of the handle till very last, this way the bow can really pick its own top limb. sits better in the tillering tree too.

[Dublin Joe]

I hear ya, guys.  I knew better but did it any way and lost a little sleep over what I'd done to that OK red oak board.

This morning I went out and ripped that riser off then sanded down to bare belly.  As I type this there's a 12" x 1/2" riser of the stiffest wood I had glued and clamped on.  I'll follow it with another 1/2" piece, a little shorter, then get to tillering.  Once that's done I'll mark and cut the fades and recut the arrow shelf which will still go right to the center.  I'll leave it 72" overall to keep enough working limb for a decent draw length.

I'll be keeping the damage to the back where I cut in, as well as the oval grip, but it shouldn't affect anything if the entire center section of the bow doesn't bend, right?

[walkabout]

you should be ok with what you have, but if you can id pull it during tillering with a string from back a bit just to be safe. you shouldnt be disapointed in it if it makes it, one of my very favorite bows is a red oak longbow, full 6' long, very sweet shooting, accurate, and feels very light in the hand for its length. i do the majority of my red oak bows from the basic design on sam harpers site, although i change the dimensions of the tapers from bow to bow depending on the length. ideally i leave the limbs full width out to about an inch or two past midlimb, then taper to 1/2" or less nocks from there. since red oak isnt great in compression i think this really helps give it more working inner and midlimb to keep set at a minimum, and so far i havent had a single bow that disapointed. pyramid layouts are great for true 2" and wider boards, because they have enough wood to take the stress close to the fades, allowing set to localize there instead of over the entire limb. not saying you cant build a more narrow pyramid, as a matter of fact im working on a laminate pyramid red oak right now as an experiment in some techniques. 12" is fairly long for a riser joel, ive never done one longer than 10", and after that one i started using 8"riser/handle sections. ideally you want to retain more working limb, at the same time giving yourself just enough strength at center to provide for cut in shelves. with a 12" riser you would be looking at about 3 inch fades and a 6 inch handle,or 2 inch fades and an 8 inch handle. really you can go as small as 1 3/4" to 2" fades. when i do a riser or handle glued on i use every part of that riser for a specific purpose, so i can make smaller handles, for example, the bottom half of a 4" handle and the fade attached to it becomes the section of the handle which rests in my palm, and the top half has the shelf shaped in, with a dish between the two for a locator. all the curves are smoothed out and eventually blend into the fades.  not trying to preach but i thought it might help elaborate on how i see the mix between form and function for handles and explain what you can do with them.

[Dublin Joe]

Thanks, Richard.  It's the "form and function" thing I'm learning today.  I know the 12" is long but with only 1/2" left after the shelf was cut in I wanted to isolate the area.

Thanks, too, for the variations on fades and handle.  I think I already kind of knew that but something clicked as I read it.

Joel

[walkabout]

no problem, just trying to help by sharing what has worked for me, ive built primarily out of red oak 1x2" 's for awhile now, it can be a very challenging wood to work with when you start varying designs and dimensions. your handle should hold up just fine, although i have to say i once removed a handle and replaced it with another, and the glue lines on the fades show slight signs of it bending slightly there, but i think this is because the bow had already been tillered so the wood was already compressed. i dont worry about it failing though, its been a solid shooter since i built it.

[Loren Holland]

Richard probably said it better than me, about using all of the riser. the one in my pic was a 10" riser. 4" for your hand, 2" for the rest, 2" for each fade. you can go shorter when you blend a fade into the grip, like he mentioned.

i have screwed up a grip before, sanded it off, a glued on another. it is harder to end up with a good glue line, unless the second riser ends up with slightly smaller dimesions