tiller check please: Full draw pics:)

[k-hat]

Hey tradgangers, just wanna see what the more experienced eyes have to say.  Hick bow, right now at 15 inches and 25# on a short string with about a 2" brace.  Ready to move to a higher brace if the curves are looking good.  Started out with about 1.5" of heated reflex, reduced to about .25" after working it then unstrung for a while. Here are the pics:

   

   

Any critique is much appreciated.

[k-hat]

Now that i'm looking at it again, looks stiff just outside of left fade and outer 1/3rd of limb?

Well, at any rate, i went on and workd her some more, here she is at full (6.5") brace:


 

Where is everybody, sleeping?? It's only 2am     Might change my tag to "midnite bowyer!"

[Roy from Pa]

Good morning:)

Bow's tiller looks real nice.

[PEARL DRUMS]

It looks pretty close to me, the right side mid way is a touch flat maybe.

[k-hat]

Thanks Roy and PD, y'alls advice has been a big help (via previous posts and searches   )  

Ok, tryn not to get impatient and in a hurry, but the closer i get the more i wanna be done!!  I know, be patient and go slow Kevin.  Well, here she is at 23".  There's some mild propeller twist that's messing with my eyes.  Been using the tillering gizmo and exercising the limbs all along the way.  So according to that, it looks ok.  Am I leaving the tips too stiff?  I want them stiff, but don't know if i'm stressing the inner limbs too much.  Let me know what you think! ;D

 

Thanks for participating  

[okie64]

Looks pretty good to me. You could scrape the outer 1/3 if you wanted to open them up a little. Dont get too carried away out there though. I think if it were me I would scrape the outer limbs just a little bit and then go back to taking full lenghth scrapes until you hit your weight and length.  

[k-hat]

Think that's what i'm gonna do, the first part anyhow.  Taken a little more inner/mid limb set than i was hoping for, so maybe i can avoid any more if i get the outers bending a little more.  I'm still running target weight i think, so i'm not gonna do any full length scraping.  @35#now at the 23 inches, hoping to get 45-50 at 28, or as close as i can to that.  Thanks for the input, can't wait to get'r finished and all pertyfied, and of course shoot'n!!!

[SEMO_HUNTER]

I would start exercising it closer toward your draw length so you know about how much further to go. Then just keep taking it down even like you have been cause the tiller looks real nice to me. I don't care for too much bend in the tips either, it makes it look whippy.

When I start pulling on the tiller board and taking off material I switch over to a palm sander. That way I don't take too much off at once and it basically finishes the limbs as you go and keeps them all nice and smooth. I find it easier to get my limbs even from end to end and side to side without the wash board effect that a scraper leaves sometimes.

[k-hat]

Ya, that washboard effect is a pain in the rear.  Did learn to run my scraper at an angle and switch it back and forth  (  \\ then  /  )  to keep from having those high spots and dips.  What grit would you use for that?  80 to heavy?  i would think you would sand forever with anything finer.  Kinda funny, I look and say, "Tiller's good, leave it", then i look again and say "No, a little more bend in the outers would be nice."  Bending it out to draw b4 i take any more off sounds like a winner, since i can't put it back!!   Thanks Semo.

[okie64]

I use a really sharp knife for scraping and never have problems with the washboard effect. Palm sanding will work too but it goes really slow.

[Randy]

Your tiller looks good to me. After exercising the bow on the tillering tree a few times(about 30 or so), I start shooting arrows from the bow before I hit my draw length. If I want a 28" draw when finished, I start to shoot the bow at 24". Sometimes I will start shooting earlier. The trick is to only pull the bow to 24" while shooting. I use tape to mark my arrows and it works well. It helps to stablize the bow limbs by putting different pressure on the limbs than the even pressure you get when using the tillering tree. I feel this makes getting an even tiller and the draw weight I am trying to hit easier for me.
Keep up the good work and continue with the patience. It will pay off big in the end.

[k-hat]

Interestingly enough, i've only gotten washboard effect on one bow i've made, a red oak.  none of the hickories or other red oaks have done that.

Woulda started shooting early like that, but i've been doing the late late nite bowyering, and don't think the fam would have appreciated "thwack" in the nite!

Anyhow, i was gonna wait until it was completely done, but couldn't help myself.  This is my first arrow shelf bow.  After shooting it, think i still prefer off the hand, feels more organic if that makes sense.  so i've included full draw pic and some handle work close up.  I really like the way the coloring turned out on the bow, almost looks like a lam handle, but it's just the heartwood/sapwood transitions in the hickory.  Let me know what you think!


Excuse my sloppy form!!  Palmin like nobody's bizness!!   :p  
 

 

 

 

[bigcountry]

Top limb might be a tad stronger than it should be.

Do you have 1/4" of positive tiller on the top limb?

[k-hat]

The picture exaggerates it, but there is between 1/16 and 1/8 inch of what i think they call negative tiller since it is the top limb closer to the string instead of bottom.  

Thought long and hard about that one, and read a lot of the posts here and Dean Torge's articles on + vs - tiller and which limb should be the stiffer one.  I teach physics, so Dean's argument really made sense with my physics brain, and since i don't have a ton of experience to go on, i went with it.  I'm gonna shape the handle to bring the fulcrum up nearer the arrow shelf (kind of pistol grippy, mild).  

I'm probly gonna hear it on this neg tiller bit, but oh well.  After all that being said, the 1/8" difference is generous, it's less than that, and the limbs were for all practical purposes identical at full draw in tiller (I know, shooting changes things).  Most of what you're seeing is the angle (i'm canting it slightly, and my son is 2 feet shorter than me taking the pic!)

BTW, i can't believe y'alls eagle eyes around here, the way you just about nailed the small stiffness difference!!  I feel sometimes like i'm the only one not seeing the elephant in the room.  

[Tom Leemans]

Check it again +vs- after the handle fulcrum point is finished. The tiller looks pretty good right now. I know you'll get some string follow as you shoot it more, so I'd hold off on getting the limb tips moving more right now.

[k-hat]

Thanks Tom, will do.  Think i'm gonna leave the tips alone tho, kinda like the way they're lookin;)   Right now it's got about 2" of set, which looks like 1" because it started with about an inch of reflex.  Additional inch of string follow after shooting, relaxes back after sitting awhile.  I'm no expert but i think that's in the acceptable range.  Acceptable to me anyhow  

[bigcountry]

I hate to say it K but you can see from the pic, you need that top limb bending.  1/8 positive tiller would be best.

I have never heard Dean ever suggest negative tiller.  But you got to remember, he makes most of his bows with 2" longer top limb.