smooth on issues

[Jim Rocole]

I have had two limbs come apart recently. I have been using the the SMooth On Parts A&B in equal amounts. One Limb was at the tip and the other at the mounts? Can the Smooth On get old? Is anybody mixing it at a different ration? Any other products out there? I did wipe the limbs down with denatured alchohol before applying glue and placing in heat box.

[Trux Turning]

Can the Smooth On get old? Yes it does have a shelf life- it sounds like you are mixing properly and preparing the limbs correctly so it could be the age of your glue or the glue up itself (coverage).

[Troy D. Breeding]

I agree with Trux on the part about coverage.

Not using enough glue can be the problem or not applying it fast enough and allowing the epoxy to haze before getting it in the press.

I've always used equal amounts.

Another problem could be not getting it mixed together properly. If you fail to blend both parts together completely you could have areas of the glue up with an improper mixture.

One question,,,, how long are you cooking the bow?

Troy

[Jim Rocole]

Troy
I use a heat oven at 150-160 degrees for 4 hrs. use a pressure form with 60psi. Both have happen on light poundage and I haven't had a problem with any poundage above 50#. probably not enough glue in the end. By the way those are some great veneers you have on the sponsor classifieds. I am working on the better half for permission to buy some.

[Troy D. Breeding]

Jim,

Sounds like you have everything going right as far as temp and time.

Just sounds like your getting a little skimpy on the amount of glue.

Better talk quick to the better half. The sale only last about 27 more days.

Troy

[johnny girardi]

Jim How old is your glue?I think there is no need to wipe down lams or glass with anything unless you got grease or oil on them.Making sure wood is dry is vary important.Putting glue on hot lams is not good.Glue to glue on all sides.I think you can go up to 75# air presure.One time I used old glue it was stringy and the cured limbs just slid apart like I used contact cement.PM me if need to

[Troy D. Breeding]

I'm doubting the age of the glue was the problem. The bow I used last season was made with glue that was five years old. I just warmed the glue before mixing to bring it back to normal look.

Troy

[BigJim]

I have never had a problem applying glue to warm veneers and have only had three bows delam in the last 1000. Two guys admited to leaving them strung in the car where they found them delaminated and the other was my fault...early bow that hinged and separated at a short fade out.
I always wipe my glass with acetone but never my wood. "All" my wood is sanded to 40 grit.
Now I know that there are some that thing everything I mentioned is a no no, but others who wouldn't do it any other way.

I can't say that I have ever used old glue before.
bigjim

[Jim Rocole]

I do heat my veneers for 20 minutes while getting the oven to temp. I have been wiping my wood & glass down with denatured alchohol. I give it five minutes and apply the glue. May be that is the mistake I am making. Not enough epoxy and wiping the wood down. The age of the glue shouldn't be a problem since it is under a year old.

[BigJim]

You know, you will seldom get a group of boyers to agree on any one subject so every bit of advise is well intended, but purely speculation.

Are you possitive that the was set before stringing? if it sets long enough, it will cure without heat, but if your box didn't get hot enough and you strung before it was cured, it could delaminate.
I remember in the beginning, my wife shut the lights off in my first shop and she didn't know that it cut off the outlet to my oven. No problem, just cooked it later but If I hadn't known, I might have strung it too early. Just thinking out loud.
bigjim

[Jim Rocole]

The friend who was shooting it probably had 600 arrows thru it. He sent me a pic to my phone and it looks like it was a adhesion problem. Seperated right at the base of the fade out. Either not enough glue or the wood was too oily. I have to look back in my records to see what the limb wood was. I cleaned my shop the other day and must have had a good idea where to put my notes. Must have been real secure because I cant find them. New infant in the house and not enough sleep.

[Troy D. Breeding]

One thing that hasn't been brought up was the time after cutting off the oven before removing from form.

I always allow as much time in the form to cool as time it cooked. (i.e. 5hr cook, 5hr cool time before removing from form)

This is now my question.

Did you allow the glue/bow/and form to cool before removing bow from form?

Troy

[Jim Rocole]

I did not allow it to cool for the whole time but around 2 hrs.

[BigJim]

I have never had a problem with taking a bow out of a form even while "slightly" warm. However there hasn't been that many as I am normally working on several at a time and don't get in a hurry to un wrap them.

bigjim

[critter69]

I believe denatured alcohal has some water in it. And if not allowed to dry completely before you apply the glue could be your problem.I didnt have the delam. problem but I did have problems with water in the alcohal elsewhere.

[Crooked Stic]

This happened to me on the last bow that I done.The air hose went flat after 3 hours of cooking. (I usaly check every couple of hours)It was flat at second check. I did not have a spare hose to put in the form.The surface temp was up enough that the glue had set and the bow was hot when I removed it from the form. I just waited untill the next day before working this bow. Once I got it to the scale I just left it at full draw for a period of time and shot it a lot to be sure it was ok. Maybe an exception to the rules.
Anyhow I never use anything but comressed air to clean wood parts. If you get too much glue on the lams it will squeeze out so never skimp there. I dont bend them untill they are room temp.70 psi in the air hose works for me

[Robertfishes]

Crooked Stic, tradGang member "pditto" told me he made a air hose connection that keeps his air hose hooked up to his air compressor, he sets his regulator at something like 65psi.. I have a little brush with stiff bristles that I use on the veneers and glass ..I should buy an oiless compressor and use air pressure to clean my parts. My compressor uses oil and I only use it for the last 5 lbs in the airhose, my bike pump will pump up to 60psi..it takes my forms about 4 hours to cool down to room temp in the oven