2 more questions

[Frosty the Bowman]

1. Why is it so much harder to build a short bow, of say 48", v.s. say 60"?

All the posts on this I read seem to say that it is much harder to build something that short, why?  Is that just for us rookies? or does that apply across the board?

Also, why is 48" considered to be o.k. for a kids bow, but short for an adult?

2. Can someone please explain to me the real difference between building a bow from a dried stave v.s a common, good, dried board?

Perhaps it is because I am a rookie, but to me a properly dried stave is nothing more then a rough cut, unfinished board, am I wrong?

Perhaps these are stupid questions, but I think not, I think if I thought of it, then somewhere someone else had the same question and was maybe to shy to ask.

Thanks guys, you all have been the most helpful group of people on any forum I have ever meet.
I am proud to be a member here with you all.

[gringol]

A 48" bow cannot be drawn far enough for an adult.  The wood won't bend that far without breaking.  You can push the envelope with a good sinew backing, but I think you'd be hard pressed to get anywhere near 28" of draw with a 48" bow.

In principle there is no real difference between the wood in a dried stave and a board.  Dried wood is dried wood.  BUT I find it much easier to find the orientation of the grain and follow a growth ring in a stave.  Also, for most white-woods you want the outermost growth-ring to be the back of your bow, and that is impossible with a board bow.

Take a look at the Traditional Bowyer's Bible (there's 4 volumes) and you'll get all kinds of good info.

[mwosborn]

Gringol has it right.

The longer the bow the more it can be drawn without bending so much that it will break.  All bows have a breaking point if they are drawn too far and bent too much.  Think of a 10 foot long bow and how little it would need to bend to draw it 28 inches.  Now think of a 48 inch bow and how much it would have to bend to be drawn 28".  Tillering becomes more "critical" the shorter the bow and longer the draw (more bend).  That is why for us beginners, starting out with a longer bow makes it easier for us to have success.  We can get away with some not so perfect tillering.

With a stave, you are starting with the grain of the wood fully in tact.  You pick the ring that you want to be the back of the bow.  A board is no different other than it has been cut out of the log.  Finding the board that has not been "ring violated" is a challenge.

That is why many will suggest a white wood bow made form a stave for a beginner.  The back of the bow is right under the bark.

Good questions!  Guys on here are great and have helped me over last year or so - I have learned a lot - but realize I have a lot to learn!

Mitch

[macbow]

Great answers.
I think the "formula" from the traditional bowyers bibles is something like draw length times 2 plus 10 inches for a,safe,length of bow.
So: 28 inch draw times 2 = 56 plus 10 equals a 66 inch wood bow. The 10 inches is for the riser and handle.
Now these numbers are challenged every day. Good tillering and different backing a can result in very short bows.

Haven't looked at the actual formula recently so jump in if corrections apply.
Ron

[Frosty the Bowman]

GREAT ANSWERS GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I had read that formula when I had checked out the Bowyer's Bible from the local library, but did not understand it.

Thanks for the clear explanation, that sure helps.
Does this rule chang then if you are planning on backing your bow? I figured for "saftey" sake I would back whatever I build, even if its a board bow pulling 40#.

That gives me another question, Does backing a bow with fiberglass add anything to the draw weight?

Here is my example for this question: If I have a bow completely done, and tillered and pulling say 42#, and I am shooting for 40 - 45#'s, will adding a fiberglass backing add to the draw weight or will it stay the same?

Also when you back a bow, do you put fiberglass or backing on both sides (belly and back)?  
Or do you just put it on the back?

And yes, another question (sorry).
I am no wood expert, "whitewoods", what are these, and where can I find a list?
When you say white wood, I generally think pine, and had heard that was not so good for bows, hence my question.
Does white wood include Oak, Ash, Hicory and others?

Thanks again guys

[gringol]

I don't have much experience with fiberglass backings, so I'll leave that for someone else...

Generally when you back a bow with anything you only put it on the back, i.e. the tension side.  Generally a backed bow can be a bit shorter than an unbacked one, but proper tiller is still important.  In fact, a short sinew backed bow is typically a better shooter than a long sinew backed bow because the sinew adds extra weight which slows down the limbs and you don't get the speed benefit from the sinew unless you put the bow under a lot of tension.  Does that help?

I believe bowyers call "white wood" anything that uses the outermost growth ring as the back of the bow.  ash, hickory, and oak are considered white woods, as well as maple, hackberry, and a bunch of others. I could be wrong, but osage and yew are really the only commonly used bow woods that are NOT white woods.

If I still lived in WA I'd go for vine maple.  It's a solid bow-wood, grows all over up there, and you shouldn't have any trouble finding some that can be cut legally.

[macbow]

Pretty much two different processes glass bows,vs wood bows.
Wood bows: taking wood wether backed or not and removing wood to form a bow, tillering to bend right and reaching a,draw weight all require removing wood.

Glass bows: following a formula of layers of tapered and parallel slats of wood sandwiched between two pieces of fiberglass of a specific thickness and shape.

With glass bows tillering and the weight are achieved with the formula.

[macbow]

If you want to learn a lot just invest in the bowyers bibles series. Lot of great information.

[Roy from Pa]

The longer you make your bow, the less stress applied to the limbs when tillering or shooting. Plus a longer bow will draw smoother, shoot more accurate, be faster, and be quieter. I make all my bow 64 to 66.