Updated Money shot: White Oak Pyramid final tiller

[Vgo750]

Please let me what you thinks I far.  I'm nervous of hinges...do the fades look like a potential hinge area? Thanks for any and all help. This is 40@10sh" with a 1" brace
 
       

[Vgo750]

[John Scifres]

Take 20 rasps off the right and 10 of the left and then take another pic.  

Fear no hinges, just remove wood where it doesn't bend enough and leave it alone where it bends too much.  You are fine so far.

[Vgo750]

Ok, after 20 on the right and 10 on the left here she is at 40# and another 2" of draw length.  Tips are about dead even now.  Anybody seeing any worrysome spots?  I have left the last 4" slightly thicker.

 

[Vgo750]

Got back at it this evening and here is where im at.  Am I beginning a hinge on the right side?
My thoughts:
- possible hinge on R side?
- left looks good but slightly stiffer?

I am shooting for between 40-45#@28"

5" brace
 
40@23
 

Immediately Unstrung
 

Thanks again for any help.

[k-hat]

I'm thinking some needs to come off the first four inches or so just outta the right fade, and the outer third of that same limb.  left looks pretty good.  

Do you have a gizmo?? Won't take long to make one and it'll get you there.

[Vgo750]

Well here we finally are.  Came in at [email protected] just know there is something a little wrong with the left limb but I couldn't handle not shooting any more...I did use the gizmo...but not consistently as I should have and I think I have too much bend mid limb on the left as a result    :mad:   .  I decided to give myself a break and put some arrows down range.  Handle section and final sand and stain are all that remain   :D   .  All criticism appreciated for an aspiring young bowyer.

46@28
   

6" brace
   

Immediately unstrung
If set is measured from the floor to the back then immediately unstrung I have just over 1&1/2" on the left and just under 2" on the right...After letting rest for the night, I have just under 1" on the left and just over 1" on the right.  Much better than my first attempt...as is the overall tiller, really.
   

[Steve Kendrot]

It's a little hard to tell, but your left limb looks looks weaker in the 6" brace photo. Have you checked your tiller measurements on each limb?

[LittleBen]

left limb is weaker.

[Vgo750]

Should i scrape the entire lengh  of the limb or focus on a certain section?
Also, what is the effect of having one weaker limb when shooting?

[Black Mockingbird]

I'd wanna see it drawn in the hand first with left limb as top limb before telling you to scrape more on the other limb..you might get a different look drawn in the hand because your pulling from dead center on the tree,and your fingers will not pull at dead center being drawn in the hand with a symmetrical bow...

[LittleBen]

I second what black mockingbird said. Also it doesn;t look terribly far off, and a little positive tiller is ok, so you might be fine with the weaker limb on top

[Vgo750]

I shot her some today...this is my first pyramid bow and 2nd shooting bow overall...and she sure shoots a lot harder than my first 40lb'r...I was pleased.  The top DEF has more bend than the bottom.  Scrape a few pounds off to even her out or leave her as is and get after murderin some paper plates...tough question?

Full draw

Full draw
 

[Black Mockingbird]

It looks a lil better in your hand,but still a tad stiff...and I'd take ten full length scrapes off the bottom limb...then shoot a dozen arrows and see if it makes a change..if not then ten more n repeat till it does...your not far off at all,so easy does it...might only lose a pound to get it...also realize you'll lose some weight(couple pounds or so) shooting it in and finish sanding it out

[Bowjunkie]

See how at full draw the stonger bottom limb is causing the bow to tilt in your hand? That is ONE effect of one limb being stronger than another... one that you should be easily able to see and feel. Other effects of unsyncronized limbs are increased handshock, built in arrow porpoising, tuning difficulties, center of dynamic balance not placed to facilitate forgiving, non-torquing grip, inconsistency, etc. It's better to have limbs under equal strain, which, by the way, doesn't mean the same thing as even tiller.

[Vgo750]

Thank you guys VERY much for posting.  If an even tiller doesn't indicate equal strain at draw...is the only way to check equal strain by full draw pics like this?

[Bowjunkie]

No. There are other more quantifiable means.

If you set your tillering tree up to replicate the fulcrum points of both your grip on bow and string, and draw a vertical line on the wall to indicate string fulcrum or arrow nock travel perpendicular to the bow handle... you can evaluate limb strength relative to one another by either:

A) With the handle held so that it cannot tip... watching whether the hook on the string pulls straight down the line. Syncronized limbs 'give' an equal amount to the string fulcrum, which allows the hook to follow the line down the wall. If the limbs aren't sync'd, the hook will pull toward the stronger limb.

B) With the handle held on the tree so that it CAN tip to either side, the bow will tip down on the stronger limb's side. With the limbs sync'd, the hook will follow the line, and with an appropriately shaped tree cradle, this method can show you where the bow's dynamic center or 'point of balance' is located as it's drawn.

Such techniques eliminate guesswork, which is what predetermined brace height measurements are... at best. Often they're flat out wrong for the bow. I use methods like those above to time my limb movement with no regard to brace height measurements until it's finished, and then only use them to keep track of whether the tiller tries to change on me.

Try it. It can be revealing.

[Vgo750]

This is like an "ah ha" moment for me....as I absolutely noticed on my set up (tree A) that the hook on my string DID pull to the right (in my 46@28 draw pic)...indicating a stronger right limb.  Makes perfect sense now.

[Bowjunkie]

Make sure you're pulling it on the tree the way you do by hand, then weaken the stronger limb until the hook pulls down the line, then notice how nicely she draws, feels at the shot, and how well the arrow flies.... Anna you gunna like it  

[takefive]

That sounds like a great way to tiller and I'm going to do it that way on my next one.  Thanks for the info, Bowjunkie.