tiller help please

[talkingcabbage]

So its been awhile since I've done a self bow and I'm trying to get back in the saddle, so to speak. This stave is a little funkier than I'm used to, and I didn't want to straighten it because I like the character. What do you think about this tiller so far? I'm having trouble reading the right limb. Too stiff in the outer third?
 
 
Braced at about 4"
 

Unbraced
 

[talkingcabbage]

Actually, now that I'm looking at it on here, I think its just fooling me because of that funky wobble and the extra little reflex right after. Idk, someone else chime in.

[Bowjunkie]

I think it's good there. That section of limb beyond the hump is working. It changes from reflexed to straight to slightly 'bent'. That's what you want.

As you alluded to, tiller shape at full draw should be relevant to how it began unstrung. Tillering the limbs to appear like a perfect arc may be pleasing to the eye, and easier to relate to, but in bows with odd shaped limbs, it means the limb isn't working equally along its length. That's why tools like straight edges and the gizmo should be used very carefully on bows with variously shaped limbs, systematically gauging small sections of limb against themselves with the above in mind.... or not at all.

[talkingcabbage]

Yea, I haven't even used the gizmo on this one. It's got too many undulations to use it.
Here's where I'm at, and now I'm really stuck. It looks hinged on the right limb, but I'm pretty sure its not. I'm thinking the left limb is okay, maybe a few more scrapes midlimb out, but I don't even know on the right. It's braced at 6.25" and drawn to 20" or so here.
 

[jsweka]

Man, that woopty doo on the right limb sure does give the appearance of a terrible hinge that's about ready to snap, but you're probably right that it's just the character of the stave.  Left limb looks good to me, but what the heck do I know - I'm one of those glass laminator guys.

[talkingcabbage]

lol John.  I'm just a glass guy anymore too!  I've been doing nothing but glass for so long, I had to dig out the tiller tree!  I actually found this stave half done in the corner of the garage, and decided to finish it for a friend's teenage son.  Maybe I'll even get him a deer this fall with it  

[talkingcabbage]

Anyone have any suggestions?

[Steve Kendrot]

What's going on on the right limb, about halfway between the fade and the whoop tee doo?

[talkingcabbage]

That's another little bump. Kinda looks like it might be weak there, doesn't it? I keep thinking. That right fade looks like it might need a few scrapes, huh?

[Bowjunkie]

Joe, be careful judging the fade area of the right limb for the same reasons as was discussed... if you compare that area to how it looked unstrung, it's bending a little. It could maybe bend a wee bit more, but not much.

You said it was drawn to 20" in the last picture, but the marking on the wall looks like it says 25". How much farther are you going? What's full draw on his bow?

A concern I have is that it appears the bow isn't sitting level in the tree, and that there is a wedge under the left side of the handle. Is there a reason for this? It's near-impossible to judge relative limb strength/timing if the bow isn't sitting with the handle area level. How about leveling her up and taking a new batch of pictures? Just for giggles I'd also like to see you then move your hook and pulley over to mimic where you'll actually draw the bow from, and then see how she behaves. Which is your top limb?

I don't think the limbs look too bad as far as how they're working, but due to how it's held in the tree and where it's being pulled from, we have little indication of how the limbs are timed. In my opinion, limb timing is as an important part of tillering as effecting the proper bend, and in some regards... more so.

Good work so far. With all the humps, lumps, and little areas of deflex and reflex, this bow looks like it would be a challenge to tiller.

[talkingcabbage]

Yea, the shim is there cuz the handle isn't quite flat on the back, so its taking up space to level it. I don't have a preference for top or bottom, whichever fits, I guess. Draw length I'm shooting for is 28", and whatever weight I end up with at a good tiller is fine. I'm kinda shooting for around 40# but that's not set in stone. And you're probably right on the length - I was guessing at the 20". I had taken the picture earlier and forgot what it was when I posted it. I'll put it back up there and try to level it out better and take some more pics.

[talkingcabbage]

Okay, so I made a few adjustments and got her back to 28". That right limb still looks funny to me, but it looks like everything is pulling evenly, so I'm leaving it for now.
Here's she is at the final brace and pulled to 28"
 

At brace
 

And unstrung right after the draw
 

I evened out the back of the handle so she sits flat on the tree. I also roughed out the handle and shot her about 25 times before we brought the kids to the park. She looked pretty straight after shooting. It had about 1" of reflex along the limbs before. She felt okay shooting. Hardly any handshock and just a bit of vibration on the string. Finished at 40#. I'm thinking she'll work. I'm gonna put a couple hundred more arrows through her and finish her up. Maybe do some horn nocks.

So a final question, does it look okay to anyone else? Any suggestions for improvement?