tillering for three under

[Echatham]

been playing with 3 under and different anchor points, and it doesn't matter what i do or what bow i use 3 under  is louder. there is a click almost like the arrow is too stiff and hitting the riser, but im not sure thats whats going on.  my most recent bow has zero positive tiller, or even tiller, and it still does the same thing.  i have heard people say that a bow tillered for 3 under will be just as quiet.  anyone have any wisdom on the subject they would like to bestow on me?

[Bowjunkie]

Basically, you're trying to force the bow to do something it wasn't meant to do. Bows can be tillered to shoot just as well 3 under as split fingered. It's all about limb timing/relative limb strength.

Often, in order to maintain the same nock point on the string and perfect arrow flight with 3 under, the bow will be made to show negative tiller... but it depends on the bow. The key is NOT inherently found in even tiller, negative tiller, positive tiller, etc.... The key is syncronized limbs when held the way it will be shot... regardless of the tiller profile.

Outside of tillering a bow properly to syncronize the limbs, the other option is to raise the nock point, in essence... leave your fingers at the same place on the string, and just move the nock point and arrow from below the index finger to above it. This maintains limb timing, but causes your arrow to leave the bow rather tail high, which it will need to recover from.

I believe the noise you are hearing may be the arrow hitting the shelf as it passes because the nock point is being pulled down toward the now stronger bottom limb in relation to the shelf as you draw. If that's the case, weakening the bottom limb, or raising the nock point should help.

Personally, if I were going to try to shoot 3 under, I would time the limbs of a bow specifically for that grip on tbe string... then I could put the nock point where I designed it to be, and the bow would be just as quiet and shoot an arrow as straight as any other bow.

[Al Dean]

I have had several bows tillered for 3 under and all were loud.  All 3 under tiller did was to keep the nocking point low, around 3/8 inch.

[shade mt]

I shoot three under and none of my bows are loud. As  Bowjunkie has all ready mentioned there are a number of things you could do. Also If your building your own bows. What is your shelf height above center? Iv'e tinkered with some variation from 1" above, to a full 2" above and it does make a bow shoot differently. Another thing i'm curious about, Is where is the most string pressure? your bottom finger? middle? this also makes a difference. A bows tiller.. A bows center..it's shelf height..it's nock point..finger pressure..All either work against each other. Or they work with each other to bring the limbs into balance and time.

[Roy from Pa]

So shade where did you settle for the arrow shelf? Which one works best for three under?

[canopyboy]

I spent some time with a good bowyer who helped explain it to me.  It doesn't matter two under, three under, split, three over, etc.  You need to hold the bow and pull on the string when tillering and timing the limbs the way it will be shot.  Going off of the  measurements for positive or negative tiller doesn't mean as much.  If you're shooting high wrist, the handle of the bow can be supported more of a peg.  If you're shooting low wrist, you need to hold the bow with a width of leather that simulates the hand pressure.  You need to pull on the string where you expect to be pulling when shooting.  Three under will be a little lower.  It also helps if you don't try to pull on the tiller tree with a single point, but with another strap of leather that simulates the pressure of three fingers.  Seems to work for me.  I shoot three under.

[Bowjunkie]

Exactly.

Tiller measurements don't mean squat, yet that's exactly what many bowyers use as their compass and beacon during tillering.

...and what's the difference? they're pulling the string from the center of the handle anyway.

[shade mt]

Roy ...11/2" to 13/4 " above center seems to work well for me with a 3 under anchor on my favorite R/D It is a touch higher than many like, but it seems to put finger string pressure close to center provided limbs are equal length. i then tiller dead even from that point. I may vary it though depending on. Bow length, string angle,Handle shape. I may be diffrent in my way of doing things, but i like to have both bow hand pressure and string pressure as close to center as possible. That's why i was curious as to his finger pressure and shelf height above center.

[shade mt]

although i just built a R/D a while back that is only 11/4" above center.  13/8"(including leather rest) but i changed the riser a bit. rather than place the center of the bow in the center of the riser making fades ect the same i stretched the top fade down a bit. which shortened the bottom fade a touch and moved the shelf down closer to center. Limb length remained equal..very, VERY, VERY! quiet!..nice shooter. 58# at 28 inch

[Roy from Pa]

Sounds good to me, shade.

[Echatham]

been away for a few days and forgot about this thread. glad i came back to it. im gonna have to change the way i do business at the tillering tree.  i knew that what i was doing didnt make sense.... dont know why i did it....supporting bow and pulling string from dead center that is.  soon i will be able to put all this good advice to use.... got another build coming up.... and its gonna be yellow..... and snakey....

[bigbob2]

shade I make most of mine at those measurements. I also agree that tip timing is more desirable than having neutral, or positive tiller.