Padded loops from a bow's perspective?

[canopyboy]

Ok, I've been trying to understand this padded loop thing.  

I'm completely onboard with the idea of strengthening the string a little in the area where it sees the most wear.

I'm still trying to come to terms with whether padding the loops on a skinny string would really make it quieter, or is that just people think it's quieter because they want to believe?

But my real question is about it being better for the bow.  If the bow is designed for use with a low stretch string like FF, why padded?  A skinny string (say 8 strand vs 16 regular) will actually stretch 2x as much as a regular string of the same material at the end of the shot.  So it can't be the shock load as the limbs come back to brace, a skinny string is already better for the bow in that respect.  So the next place to look is a larger diameter spreading that load over more surface area.  A flemish string already has hard points that flatten under pressure due to the twisted bundles.  I can't really imagine a slight reduction in diameter on a skinny string making dents or gouges in the string groove or overlay purely by virtue of having less strands.  I've haven't seen any evidence of this.

I think padded is good for the first reason about strength and wear and string life.  But why bowyers would say their bow is FF compatible but only if padded is puzzling me.

Thoughts?   :confused:

[Razorbak]

I have made skinny strings without the padding and it is slightly noisier but the strength is there with the string but maybe not the tips but when I made skinnys with a padded loop with either the same material  or B50. I noticed it being alot quieter so I choose to add little more material at loops but you don't want to over do it with the padding in my opinion because some can be overkill and defeat the purpose of a skinny string. I don't add no more than 3 extra lays per  bundle   Plus if you see how skinny a 10 strand of 8190 is at the tips. There is a chance of slicing thru your limbs and you don't have the shock absorber of the padded loops. That's like taking a piano wire and cutting cheese with it. I don't care how well your tips are made. Something gonna give at some point. Why take a chance so that's why I pad my skinny strings and get the benefit of a skinny string with the speed and stability and strength but I would also modify your build to include the stretch and also pre stretch the string before the serving. I make my strings 1/2 shorter before I add my desired twist ratio then pre stretch on my jig before serving. Works for me and all the strings I make for people. By doing it this way I have a 1/4 of adjustability either way up or down and my strings don't move once its on my bow

[LittleBen]

Dave my take is this, and this is obviously without any testing.

Certainly a skinny string has MORE stretch than a string with 16 strands as you pointed out.

Whether padding the loops quiets the bow, I don't know, but I can't fathom why it would make a bow quieter.

I haven't used any very skinny strings, but I also haven't even had problems with a string cutting through a tip. I believe that this is largely a myth which probably started when HMPE (dyneema and spectra) came out as bowstring materials, and someone said "HMPE is stronger than steel", which is true, by mass; and next thing you know the other guy says "if steel can cut off my limb tips, so can HMPE". Maybe thats not exactly how it happened but I doubt there was alot more analysis.

Dave, remember shooting that sinew backed ERC bow? probably around 50# ... it only has pin nocks, and has no overlays at all ... it's just BCY 8125 string against a little sinew and cedar. Well that bow shows just the slightest dents at the corners of the nocks after hundreds of shots. I figure that sines and cedar is 1/10th as strong as a glass bow tip with horn or phenolic overlay.


Tip cutting string ... I can believe that.

String cutting tip? ... that one I have a hard time with.

[Dan Bonner]

It spreads the force over a larger area on the tips. I have had two bows where a skinny string cut through the belly glass at the string groove. One I built and one a friend asked me to build a new set of limbs to fit. Imagine a string with a 50# weight tied to your neck. Would you rather have a skinny string or a fat string?

Bonner