need help with ebony !

[soy]

I have glued up a hill with clear glass over riser,the riser is gabon ebony...after 3 days the riser ramps are developing tiny air pockets and seams to be lifting slightly around the edges...if needed I can try to get pics...is it doomed or is there something I can do to save it?i will give it another day or two to see if it gets worse ...any help would be greatly appreciated                

thanks,thad

[heartlandbowyer]

Sounds like glue didn't cure correctly . I wouldn't think they would start "developing" in a low stress area like the ramps. If they get to the fades the bow is probably doomed. If they stay on the ramps only cover em up with some ramp overlays.

I'm assuming you are using smooth on mixed 1 to 1, what was cook time and temp?

Cory

[heartlandbowyer]

Oh sorry maybe some CA thin sill stop it from spreading further.

[soy]

Yes smooth on a touch strong on part a cured in form 30 some hrs @ 75° was fine for first 2 days after than this morning it showed up....

[Roy from Pa]

Was there moisture in the lams before glue up? Or is the ebony an oily wood?

[soy]

It is oily...the lams seam to be holding up

[soy]

 

 

[Bowjunkie]

So there's no limb lamination between the riser and the glass? That seems a bit odd.

The shape of some Hill style risers mean inherent stress between the riser and the lams glued to its belly side since the glass is sometimes bent in such a small radius. It's hard to tell if that is a factor here without a side view. The key is an adequately rough and clean gluing surface, plenty of glue, and moderate clamping pressure.

[soy]

I hand sanded with 80 grit and cleaned multiple times with denatured alcohol as it was gumming up the paper with the oils, applied smooth on to both surfaces and inflated to 70 psi top riser was not choice #1 but had to go with plan b( don't ask lol)
I had seen it on the hill style thred on pow wow

 

[kennym]

Getting more numerous don't sound good. If you figure something out, and want those belly veneers, just holler!!

[BigJim]

Wood was too wet! The Ebony shouldn't be gumming up the paper much if it was dry...well not more than any other wood. Being oily is not the problem either as it is also not very oily compared to many other frequently used woods.

An 1 1/2" square by 18" piece of gabon could take several years or more to dry depending on what conditions it was subjected to and how long it stayed in wax. Not to mention the moisture content of the area it was stored to be air dried.

Moisture meters will only tell you part of the story even if you have one that is adjustable to varying densities of multiple woods. The meter will only read in a very short distance and while that may be dry, just a 1/4" deeper may be too wet.

I can't say for sure that the glue letting loose was from the moisture but most likely it couldn't properly cure due to the moisture. As I said, the gumming of the paper was the telling tale. Cleaning with alcohol didn't help you any either.

I use Ebonies every day and seldom have a problem....but most everything I'm using has been in my air conditioned shop (40% humdity or less) for 2 + years.

BIgJIm

[soy]

Thanks Jim...it had been air dried (according to the seller)for 10+ years it was in wax...they claimed that it was"bone dry" guess there is a sucker born every minute    is there anything I can do aside from cross my fingers?

[BigJim]

Hang it on the wall or wear safety glasses...and maybe a hard hat.
Probably won't hurt you but never know. I have broken a doz. bows or more (only one was one of mine) and only ever wore one.

Most all wood sales people will tell you that everything is dry. A piece of gabon covered in a heavy wax might take more than 10 years to dry. I don't know, but that same piece without wax may take 2-3 years or more depending on enviroment.

I used to buy wood from a guy and he never had a piece in his building that wasn't dry... funny, he  also had no way of testing anything either.
I guess if you can test moisture than you would be lying everytime you told someone the wood was dry if it wasn't.

Sometimes, it is a bit of an educated guess. I keep lots of wood on hand so it can season long before I ever need it...sometimes I get in a pinch too though.
It chills me to think about how much money I  have in my wood room....the thought of fire chills me too.

bigJIm

[soy]

Well you were spot on it did not seam to get worse shot a 3-d with it all was well shot great!!!! Set it inside and the heat went was blowing on it it dried some more , the edge discoloration got worse and the bond on the bottom is letting go    is there a way to reclaim and reuse after it has been glued and formed to a locater grip?

[soy]

Bummer to IMHO it was looking good...is it possible to get some thin ca glue down the cracks and save it?
Here is a shot of a friend letting a few go @ the 3-d

 

[BigJim]

I don't see a satisfactory repair, but what have you got to loose? other than a little blood. it will probably grow back anyway.

BIgJim

[soy]

Lol I hear ya

[7 Lakes]

The edges lifting could be a waxy thumb picking it up.  I doubt alchol would clean this perfectly but EA-40 epoxy does not adhere to wax

[soy]

Thanks , no wax involved ...I try to make sure that I glue up in an environment where I will not get any oils or anything else that might interrupt the bond...not to say that I didn't miss something, I appreciate the tip and I will watch out for that in the future