Quality of edge on a broadhead?

[Apex Predator]

I have been sharpening broad heads for quite a while, and have found success many different ways.  I have used files, tru-angle type arkansas stones and diamond stones, and lansky type sharpeners.  I have been able to achieve that edge that readily shaves with all of them.  All of these methods requires valuable time though.  I have recently been using a wheelie type from Simmons.  This wheelie sharpener is so much easier and faster than the rest.  I can sharpen 6 broadheads in the time it takes for one or two with any of the other methods.  The edge is hair popping sharp with a few strokes.  I have read that this type of edge is bad.  What is the rationale behind this reasoning?  Thanks in advance.

[NorthShoreLB]

Can't be all that bad !  

[swampbuck]

I missed seeing anybody say that type of edge was bad in fact I have seen folks say they really like the simmons sharpener.I've not personally used that and if I was to venture a guess I'd say some folks may be worried about useing a bur as the cutting edge but again it's only a guess on my part I've only heard good things about those

it wouldn,t be scalpo quality using a scrape method but sharp is sharp and it would be sharp enuff

[JC]

I am a big believer in the Simmons Wheelie sharpener...especially for those guys who are sharpening challenged. I purchase these 5-6 at a time and then give them away to guys who say they can't get a trad broadhead (not sharp out of the box) sharp enough to hunt with. After pointing them to my review section that gives instructions (  Simmons Sharpener Review  ), they usually come back with "how much did this cost and I'll send you the money...". I believe so strongly in helping people get sharp, huntable heads I simply ask those guys to buy one and pass it along to someone else who is sharpening challenged.

Now, I will admit, I do not believe this sharpener will get an edge as good as a good file edge or one done by multiple other time consuming methods. But given a relatively new head (not chewed up), ANYONE can get an edge sharp enough to hunt with (shaving) in less than 5 minutes (and that's if you take a 3 minute break). Is it as sharp as Ray Hammond's grizzlys....no. As sharp as a Doug Campbell or Tippit knife...no. As sharp as a WW using Charlie Lambs method...no. But for $7 and 2-5 minutes, it's a pretty good alternative for the guy who doesn't know how to get a sharp edge.

I carry a small diamond coated round steel, a Tippit croc stick, and a wheelie sharpener in my pack. With these three, I can take care of just about any need that arises in the field.

[JL]

I pretty anal when it comes to having things sharp. I always believed a dull blade will get you hurt quick. I have tryed several ways of sharpening with all kinds of different steels (that S30V is a bear to work with!) I mainly use a edgemaker and finish off with a set of crock sticks. It goes pretty quick with broadheads. I also carry a small set of crock sticks in my pack in case I need to touch up a edge while in the field.

JL

[joebuck]

IMO there is something dramtically different between the metals most BH are made from in the states or imported to the states than those of Germany. The heads made from german steel take razor sharp to another degree. Think about it, you finest knives are from germany. I have personally lined up 6 double bladed heads (USA) and sharpened exactly like i do for the german steel double blade. The results are they never get as sharp as the BH of german steel does. The the BH of german steel also cost 2x to 5x more too! I'm not talking about the difference between burr flipping or hollow ground or etc. i talking about taking that edge to almost atomic sharpness. IMO USA heads can't do it. the edge seems to crumble before. Most of ya'll using devices are only experiencing a sharp serrated edge not a Razor, Razor, Razor sharp edge. My statement here is IMO but it is what i have observed over the last 30 years. I have not plugged any BH company yeah or nay but if your interested on how to really achieve that edge, PM me and I'll direct you to a site that shows how....

[James Wrenn]

When you sharpen a knife you want a tough lasting edge because you don't need to sharpen as often.With a broadhead you are making one cut.There is no need for that long lasting edge on something you are going to touch up again before you use it.If it is sharp it will work as well as any kind of edge you can put on it.The best way to sharpen any broadhead is the way you can get it sharp enough the easiest. jmo

[laddy]

Even if the Simons throws up a bur, the edge under that bur is quite often sharp.  Although i usually sharpen broadheads the same way Hill did it with a file.  with good metal the raised edge survives the the hit anyway.

[Bill Carlsen]

I use the wheelie to get a rough concave edge then finish it off with a KME sharpening jig.

[joebuck]

Apex Predator...I do not see anything wrong with that edge if it will pop hairs dragging the BH BACKWARDS up your arm??!!! Most everyone places a broadhead on the forearm and strokes down in a sawing motion to the wrist to shave hair BUT will it do the OPPOSITE way just going up the forearm to the elbow in NO sawing motion? If not, it can get sharper by taking it through an additional step if the metal is of quality.

[Sharpster]

Originally posted by Apex Predator:
I have read that this type of edge is bad. What is the rationale behind this reasoning?  Thanks in advance.

Now don't jump all over me for this but, the reason that carbide and file sharpened edges are inferior is because the edges both tools produce are only superficial. Yes, they often feel frighteningly sharp and you may even be able to shave your arm with this type of edge but it is not nearly as durable as a honed and polished edge.

I know with broadheads we're looking for "one time" cutting performance but, what if a bone is hit on the entrance side? The blade is instantly and substantially dulled because the burr or straightened wire edge that is doing the actual cutting is very fragile and shears off on contact with anything remotely hard. Even penetrating the hide can often dramatically dull this type of edge. What's left is a dull underdeveloped edge that rips rather than slices the rest of the way through the animal. Tearing or sawing through tissue promotes clotting whereas clean slicing retards clotting.  

Carbide sharpeners are fast, and require little skill to use, so they have their place for sure. Like Bill C. said they are great time savers but finishing on a stone will always result in a sharper, much more durable edge. The question is not how sharp are the broadheads in your quiver, it's how sharp is the broadhead after its done its job? If you can still shave your arm with it after it has passed through the animal, then there is no doubt that it sliced cleanly through every organ, vein, capillary in its path.

As for American broadheads being less sharpenable than the German made Silverflame... I have to disagree Joe. I have Grizzlys, Zwickys, Magnus and countless other broadheads that are every bit as sharp as the Silverflames. They will plow hair with the grain, across the grain, or against the grain. I have even seen a guy shave his face with a Zwicky Eskimo. Not a beard, just a couple days growth. (longer hair is much easier to shave than stubble). The Silverflames are without question great broadheads and they will hold an edge longer than just about any other broadhead but, our American broadheads can be made just as sharp or sharper.

Ron

[JC]

Well, I've tried both mirror polished with a paper wheel, jig sets, "scary sharp" woodcarver's method, scalpel sharp, file sharpened, wheelie sharpened and .... and well, a whole bunch other methods. The animals hit with them all died the same.

But then, I've been called "simple" before.

Don't know about German steel bein better Joey. I've got some custom knives here from US I'd stack against any blade out there. Course, I do so love my Solingen Explorer (Puma White hunter) and for a very "stainless" stainless steel, it takes a wicked edge.

I do believe that SF is using the best steel out there in a broadhead right now. Spensive, but worth the $, imho.

[Fletcher]

I have to agree with Sharpster on this one.  Sharpened edges are still a series if minute scratches, with the scratches running in the same direction as the edge is run across the sharpening device.  When those serrations run parallel to the edge, they form stress risers which weaken the edge.  With a honed edge, those scratches are more perpendicular to the edge and won't weaken it.  Still, the carbide and file produced edges have proven themselves to be very effective killers, and way better than a dull edge.

[NDTerminator]

Starting back in the late 60's I've pretty much used everything that has come along as well.
I still have a scar on the tip of my thumb that cracks open every winter, courtesy of one of those little plastic handled Bear sharpeners that broke sharpening a Razorhead in 69'.  Didn't seem that sharp when I was working on it, but that Razorhead had no problem cutting clean down to the bone!!!

By & large I believe most broadheads today are made of good steel and readily take a good edge.  Lots of sharpeners will do the job, some faster than others. Irregardless of which I use, I found that a critical final step I never deviate from is to strop them on leather after I'm satisfied with the sharpenened edge.  That takes a scary sharp edge to shaving sharp.

BTW, the sharpener I use most often these days is a G5 Sportsman Sharpener. It not only puts a a scary sharp edge on anything that cuts, it's  the safest pull through sharpener I've ever used...

I really like Tru-Angle Hones and have them all.
Just more & more I reach for the G5 as it's much more convenient...

[joebuck]

Sharpster  Two questions for you before I change my oppionion which I have no reserve in doing:) But I ask you this
1. Do you own any BH from German steel?
2. Can you sharpen your American head to shave BACKWARDS up your arm in a straight motion and post a video because I would like to see you do it?

[baretraks]

My friends can always tell when hunting season is close because my left arm, usually hairy all year long, becomes quite smooth!!
I've done this test more than once....put a razor edge on the blade, then when you stick one and find your arrow, drag it back across the hairs on your arm and find out what happens....you'll be surprised on how sharp it still is, even when it's busted a rib into. For that matter, go to the butchers, buy a cheap rack of ribs and put a broadhead through it. You'll find the head doesn't dull as much as you might think.

[joebuck]

baretrak...you make an excellant point!..A quality razor razor sharp edge will remain hair shaving sharp after it comes to a stop. I have a video of me shooting a razor razor sharp BH into the 2" shield of a boar hog and penetrating another 12" into vitals. I remove the head and shave my arm with it in front 8 people. This head was sharpened by me using a simple technique that has been around for hundreds of years.

[Sharpster]

JC,
I wasn't implying that only a stone sharpened edge should ever be used for hunting or that any of the sharpening methods you mentioned are unaccepable. Far from it. We all have our own personal sharpening techniques and whatever works best, works best. The important thing is that we get our broadheads as sharp as we possibly can. Shot placement trumps every other factor in game recovery. Sharper broadheads just leave better bloodtrails regardless of the blade count or broadhead size. Again, shot placement is everything and even the sharpest broadhead in the world can't make up for a bad hit.

Apex asked about honed vs. coarse edges and I was just trying to answer his original question. Don't think you're "simple" at all.


Joebuck,
I have a couple Silverflame broadheads. As I said, great heads. Without a doubt they are the sharpest out of the pack broadheads available, and they certainly do hold an edge far longer than any other head that I'm aware of. I'll give you a nod to the steel quality. Top notch.

But.. I don't think that every piece of steel in Germany is of the same quality, nor is every piece of American steel the same. American broadhead manufacturers use lower grades of steel for making broadheads not because that's all we have here but, because very good quality broadheads can be made from moderate grade steel and they won't cost us, the end user $25 per head.

If you re-read my first post you'll see that these American made broadheads will shave in any direction. Will they hold that edge as long as a Silverflame? No. Can they be made just as sharp as a Silverflame? Absolutely.

As for the video, I'm afraid you'll have to get in line. Not exactly my specialty and I have several sharpening videos to make/post that are way over do. I will do it though.

Ron

[joebuck]

Thanks Ron...I'm not good either with video! Neat products you have. I like alot of American heads out there like Muzzy, Rockys and others but it am not a fan of the "cast" heads it seems us Traditionist are loaded up with. As you know it takes some time to get that head Razor Razor sharp. Biggie was kidding me this weekend why I'm sharpening all the time!!! But I know a razor razor sharp head will penetrate to the max. Everyone seems to be on this site into Single bevel this with skinny arrow that and FOC this but.......IMO they need to pay more attention to the business end first and become proficent with products like yours in achieving a RAZOR RAZOR RAZOR sharp head not one that will just "shave hair" or "catch my nail".

[JC]

Update: Joey sent me one of his 160 snuffers that he had sharpened and some of the honing paste he uses in the final steps. While silver flames are the sharpest head I've ever held, Joey's snuffer is a stand-out second.  I've gotten some blades scary sharp on a paperwheel...but none of them like this head. It truly is a wickedly sharp blade.

You've convinced me Joey! A public "thank you" for sharing your instructions and materials, I really do appreciate you taking me under your wing and teaching me something new.    Can't wait to put the new knowledge to the test!