dimensional advice for first bow. its hickory (AND build thread)

[lockmanslammin]

I can sure run it up under the handle farther. That was more of an idea sketch so it would be easier to see what I was talking about than a final draft. There should be very little pressure on the bottom portion of the handle anyhow, mostly consentrated on the top. All of the wood in the handle will be good strong hickory too, no decorative wood. I'm sure it isn't original, but it will be the first one I have seen. Wish me luck.

Chris

[ColonelSandersLite]

@lockmanslammin

That drawing of your proposed handle looks really nice, but I would advise against it on your first bow based on the following:

1: A lot of the less experience bowyers seem to make their tiller as good as they can, and then designate whichever limb is stronger as the bottom limb, as it can be hard to gauge how it's going to turn out until it's finished.  That overhang would force you to make that decision from the outset.

2: I'm not saying it can't be done, but I would advise against cutting into the back of the bow like that.  If it where a takedown bow, that would be different.


Unrelated to the direct question, but relevant and learned from experience:  If you're going for a rigid handle, I would recommend that you avoid doing much shaping on the handle, except for working in the fades until the bow is nearly done and making the belly side flat.  If you plane the belly of the handle flat and work it just to where it sits level on your tillering tree, the whole tillering process is a lot easier to work with in the meantime.  Additionally, if you screw up in the tillering process, the wood just can't take it due to a hidden defect, or whatever, and it breaks, that at least saves you the effort of doing a whole lot of carving that won't pay off anyways.

Again, I'm by no stretch an expert bowyer, but those are my thoughts anyways.  And if someone with more experience wants to say I'm wrong, I defer to their judgement.

[takefive]

Keep us posted and good luck  

[lockmanslammin]

Colonel,
Excellent advice, which I am both going to follow, and at the same time not follow, kind of. I'm glad you said it because I would have probably roughed out the handle shape when I made my initial thickness cut and taper cuts. However after your advice, and having seen instructional videos explaining the wait till later to pick the top plan, I am changing up my plan of attack.

New plan: cut enough of the fades in to do the trick, on both sides of the handle, symmetrically, so either one could still be the weird undercut one. Then I can still pick the strong limb later on in the process. Additionally, taking your advice and making the belly of the handle sit nicely on the tillering tree (which I have yet to build).

I don't know why but with most things I build I feel an irresistible urge to stray from the norm in some way. Ussually in an attempt to improve the design in some way. Funny thing with bows is, that it's pretty hard to improve on a design ten thousand years into the r&d process. I guess I will just have to settle with weird in this case...lol.

If I luck out and am able to pull off the basic tillering process, the real trick for me will be tillering the slight twist out of the one limb.

Tonight I'm going to cut out and glue on the final layer of wood for the handle and glue it on. With any luck I will have time to rough out the shape tommorow, after I snow blow and shovel.

Thank you for the insight,

Chris

[lockmanslammin]

With the help of some Sierra Nevada pale ale, and some tite bond 3,  the last piece of hickory is glued and clamped in place. The yellow stuff is painters tape so I don't have to wipe up all the drips. Got that little nugget off of a YouTube video of a bowyer I don't recall who at the moment though.

 Also, and not really related to this post, but I found this video really interesting on the properties of wood glue if your interested. Just do a YouTube search for "can you squeeze all the glue out of a joint?" There are some interesting results. Matthias wandel is one of my favorite youtubers. Anyhow ttyl,

Chris

 

[lockmanslammin]

Handle undercuts/transitions cut, tapers cut to tip, and thickness roughed out. By the way I bought a surform "file" and a halfround refill for it, and what a piece of crap. The half round cutter for it slides sideways and pops off the handle, even after meticulously aligning with its cheasy holder and tightening it thouroughly. Any of you guys experienced this?
Chris

 

 

[takefive]

I had the rasping blade break on a Surform and the replacement blade for it seemed like it was pre-dulled.  I went to Woodcraft and bought a Shinto rasp.  Much better.

[mwosborn]

Surforms will work, but not the best tool in the box - never used the half round on one.  I also like the "Shinto" as well as a nicholson 49 rasp.  They are well worth purchasing.

[lockmanslammin]

Sad really the level of tool that Stanley is ok with putting they're name on lately. I bought a Stanley plane a year or two ago and had to spend a few hours lapping the base of it to get it even close to flat. It was totally concave, total disappointment.

On another note this beast is working awesome. I found it in a drawer left by a previous owner of my house. Depending on the angle you use it, it will leave a super smooth surface or peel long tendrils of wood off in a hurry. The only way it would be better is if one side was convex. In fact I'm going to start having to wear gloves to use it because it is slicing up my front hand while using it.

 

Also, I have run into a little snafu. I have a pretty small shop (9'x20') and with a decent bench, a table saw , tool boxes and shelves, etc. I really can't figure out a spot for a wall mounted pulley style tillering tree. I may have to come up with a folding dual pulley tree that you just set on the floor . I will have to whip up a drawing and see what you guys think.

Chris

[lockmanslammin]

Well, I am close to trying a low brace. I purchased the 8 dollar walmart luggage scale so I would be sure and not over stress it when bending it to check tiller. It was under about 50lbs of tension when I snapped these pics. It is taking me a while because I am being overly critical after each rasping. I got pulleys today also to set up a tillering tree.  

If anyone sees an issue that I don't see chime in and let me have it.

Here is the pics,

Chris

 

 

[takefive]

Looks good to me.  Do you have a Gizmo tillering block?  Using one helps to keep that nice even bend thru the tillering process.
Make sure to round off the edges of the limbs.
Good work so far  

[fujimo]

youre getting the best advice out there- the only thing i can add, is: to not draw your bow back on a tillering stick, and leave it there all loaded up , while you take pics etc.
i avoid tillering sticks now a days.
 this excessive loading, more than a few seconds, literally; can lead to excessive set (esp. hickory) and possibly breakages!

set up a tillering tree with a pulley and a long rope- best for exercising the bow, and viewing from a distance- to get better perpective.
just my .02c    :D

[lockmanslammin]

Thanx takefive, I don't have a gizmo, but I have watched videos on it. So far I have been carefully eyeballing it. I have had to take a lot more off of the outer half of each limb than the middle to get it where it is. Having that big flat uncarved handle has allowed me to lay a long straight edge on it to judge one limb against the other, which has been handy. I have been chamfering the belly edges so they don't split out from the rasping, but I still need to smooth the back edges.
Next task is to put together a pulley and rope tillering tree, and order some b50 to make a string.

Chris
This has been fun, I have wanted to make a bow since I was a kid. The twinned up sticks I made back then we're fun, but hopefully this one turned out a little nicer...lol.

[lockmanslammin]

All over the jig fujimo. I took that stick out as quick as I could, I have read about that problem. I have been carefully to not pull it past its intended final weight though.
I appreciate all the help guys.

Chris

[takefive]

Here's a link for Eric's Gizmo.  It's been a big help for my tillering.

 http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=001047

[lockmanslammin]

Regarding the drawing of the handle profile I posted at the end of page 1, I was wondering if it will be safe to carve the small curve into the back of the bow where I have it drawn?
Chris

[takefive]

I think it would be okay as long as your handle is thick enough.