Ancient bows-who's were best?

[Angus]

Mine's a Vazul, from Kassai Lajos/3 rivers.  It's no that expensive when compared with other decent bows.  whatever you do, though, if you're going to shoot a thumb ring, don't get anything heavier than a target weight (35# or less) to start.  I have no trouble drawing my bow, but release is a different story with one of my thumb rings!  bruised knuckle, and it looks awful!  I can go for about ten shots, then hav to put it down!

[R.W.]

Angus,

If you are bruising your thumb knuckle, your ring doesn't fit properly.

My index finger on my draw hand gets tired/strained when I shoot for an extended period of time, but the only problem with my thumb is I occasionally "catch" the thumb nail with the bow string.

And I completely agree on the selection of bow weight for a starter bow.

[sealevel]

The kootenay indians from southern bc and montana i have read made the best bows in north america . They were a composite using sheep horn.

[R.W.]

sealevel,

That is what I have heard about the Kootenai peoples also.

I would really like to see one of these bows up close and personal.

These bows supposedly were traded to many tribes, whose hunting grounds were far from the lands of the Kootenai peoples.

It would be great if any of the Kootenai's still had the knowledge to build these bows.

I grew up in and around Cranbrook, but don't ever remember any of the Kootenai's hunting with a bow.

[sealevel]

R W    i think one of andy russels books Can`t remember the name ( something about a river ) talks about these bows. There may be some pic`s

[tecum-tha]

Reasonable priced composite bows (horn,wood,sinew) can be found at Grozer Archery in Hungary (about 850-1000€). But there are a lot of variables in a composite bow to really fit you. Especially the length of the bow and the angle of the siyas are important factors. Most of these bows are made for a super long draw (which is possible from horseback,but less suitable for modern target or hunting. With those longer draws the bows are real performers. With shorter draws (up to 28") you should check out bows from people which are naturally smaller in body height than the modern american/european.
Korean bows seem to fit here best. I pull my korean about 26 inches and it smokes!!

[R.W.]

tecum-tha,

While I am not "short" I do not fit into the "tall" catagory, either, at 5'9".

I draw my horsebow to about 30" when pulled to my earlobe.

I think the Korean bows (Duverany/Bluelake) are good to about 31.5"/32" and I am told that these bows PERFORM!    

As my brother has just bought one, I guess I will find out!      

[tecum-tha]

R.W. You will find out :-))

[Angus]

It's snug, Randy; I have the thumbring book also, and it seems to fit based on the info contained in it.  Should it be more snug?  I've got enough antler to make another if need be. It's a 50-pounder, and I wish I had gotten a lighter pull so I could work on targets.  I may just get another!

[R.W.]

Angus,

My ring willslide easily over the thumb knuckle, but "locks " in place when I turn it. That is to say that the rings opening is an oval shape, not round.

After I place the ring on my thumb, I turn it 90 degrees, and it is then "snug" and locked on my thumb. It is not tight. . . well, after 30-40 minutes of shooting it does get kinda tight.

Chris Constantine built my first ring for me, and then I made a few from various materials.

tecum-tha,

Yes, even though I will get to see the bow before he does, I don't think that I will shoot "his" new bow. That wouldn't be quite right!    

I am looking forward to be able to give it a go, though.

[Mark Baker]

The sheephorn/sinew composite bows were made by  the Sheepeater indians in the area around Yellowstone...a branch of the Shoshoni's.   Bows were around 36 to 40 inches long, on average, and said  to be quite powerful.   Also very desirable by other indians.   They were hunting weopons, not ceremonial.  Native americans drew on average around 23 inches is all, I've read.   Ed Scott has a sheephorn/sinew composit that is very cool to see.

[laddy]

I built a Penobscot copy  a fews years ago following  an articles description. I think that it shot about the same as my longbows, I broke it experimenting with tiller and length changes.  If I try again, I will be putting bamboo backing on everything and using fast flight, because it doesn't get springy when twisted up tighter.

[NorthShoreLB]

Competition, competition  :rolleyes:    :rolleyes:  

Like mentioned before every colture developed a desing to fit needs and enviroment.

However, for hunting, the man tall strait bow gotta be the king, from the American indians (before the horse) to the African continent, back to South America, across the ocean to England and all across northen Europe a version of the strait man tall bow must have feed more people than all other design combined  

[John Nail]

If you read Saxton Pope's book "Hunting with bow and Arrow"  He does some testing of various designs from around the world with some unexpected (by me) results

[oberon]

You need to check out Jaap Koppedrayer of Yumi-bows.com .  this guy makes about the best bamboo / bamboo and horn bows that are available today anywhere.  That being said his horn bows are not inexpensive.  But we put our value where it means the most to us as individuals.  One of Jaap's bows in most certainly on my bow want list.
 As always , all the best,
 Oberon

[P.W.Smith]

I personally think, that for all Hunting and War intents and purposes,(with bows that pulled over 100 lbs) (both Korean and English "war bows" were in the 100-160 lbs range), that the English Warbow is the least tempramental, most forgiving, and in a pros and cons "battle" (no pun intended) it would come out on top, because it is more versatile and the strategy used with it is much MUCH more adaptable than with a Mongolian or Korean horn bow...
Thats just my opinion and experience with both bows (I shoot an "english War bow" fairly regularly and have shot a "horn bow" - and the horn bow is much less forgiving than the warbow, all draw weight differences aside...)
Derek

[R.W.]

Derek,

The peoples who used these weapons grew up with them, and used them to feed an cloth themselves, and their families.

I would imagine that both the longbow, and composite bow cultures were dang good with their weapon of choice.

Now, the Mongols, Hun's, Magyars, etc were horse based cultures. The horse was part of their lives, and they fought from horse back. Therefore, the bow they developed over who knows how long, had to be easily used from horseback. The short, wickedly curved composite "horsebow" came about.

The English/Welsh/Irish fought from the ground, unless one was of the aristocracy, or wealthy.

While a composite bow could be readily used from the ground, I doubt that a longbow would be readily used from horseback.

As the cultures were different, so were their bows.

[P.W.Smith]

yeah I know that, I'm just saying that from a modern standpoint, we who don't normally ride horses (we use them darned gas-guzzlers instead) would have more use for an English Longbow in most things, as well as the TBB. V. 2 fact that horsebows are not meant as "hard use" bows, they are normally (if made of traditional materials)"coddled" in special warming boxes and are "conditioned" prior to useage in anything...though that could just be the Korean design itself that needs it...but anyway, the English longbow, (medieval version), is better suited to what our culture uses bows for today, and while I understand the fact that horsebows are shorter, this also, according to TBB. V. 1, "design and performance" chapter says that they're also less stable, and therefore less accurate than a good ol' "C" tillered ELB, and Though this is my humble opinion, I think that the reason the horsebow (in mongol use) declined to a sport (besides the invention of gunpowder) was that, on their conquest of Europe, they "ran into" forests, where their horseback tactics would be rendered ineffective...
Derek