How many of you build glass AND all-wood bows and do you have a preference?

[kiltedcelt]

The title pretty much sums it up. Up until now I've only made all-wood bows, though I've experimented (miserably) with fiberglass in the past. I bought some lams to use with some brown glass I had laying around and I'm intending to make a Hill-style longbow. Anyway, (probably) unlike a lot most of you guys, I'm not a hunter (although I hope to be some day when my accuracy improves), so I approach bow building from a woodworker's perspective. I live in an apartment and have a limited ability to work with really messy stuff like fiberglass. However, I do have a place to work on the really messy stuff now, so I'm hoping to do a bit more. I love the way you can get some amazing looking bows with fiberglass, where the grain pattern can be wild and crazy unlike with all-wood bows where grain must generally be perfect.

For that reason, I've also steered away from stave bows because, well, staves are expensive and backed bows allow me to work with more marginal pieces of wood for my belly pieces. I'm getting back into making bows, and honestly I like the finished product but frankly I've NEVER liked the tillering aspect. I know with a lot of the all-wood bow guys, that's the great part because you're coaxing a bow out of the wood a little bit at a time. With me, it's always been a huge frustration. I'm hoping that an Eric Krewson Tillering Gizmo (TM)    will help with those few all-wood backed bows I've got sitting on the shelf. I do think that in the future I might make the occasional all-wood bow, but will probably tend more towards glass just because there's very little tillering involved and I can generally stretch myself a bit more as a woodworker using the wild and crazy wood combos. So, how about you guys?

[Bowjunkie]

I make glass/wood laminates, all-wooden tri-lams, bows backed with bamboo, horn, wood, sinew, rawhide and other skins, and selfbows.

By far, my preference is to work with natural materials, and my most favorites are character laden selfbows. I seem to 'connect' more with the unique bows that require more of me.

I don't care for flat bows and I don't care to have more than one out of the same press... so I dont make many glass bows nowadays.

I like designing, tillering and timing bows to suit the arrow and archer as nicely as possible... so yes, I like tillering... but I find it no less important in bows with glass on them. They should balance as well as a selfbow at full draw. They get tillering tree time too.

[fujimo]

i make both types-
i love a beautiful character stave, i love the way wood shoots, and feels! and i can look at a wood/character bow all day
and as you said the glass appeals to the more technical side in me- the precision, and the allure of crazy wood.
glass is more durable, in a way that when i give a bow to a beginner nowdays- its a glass bow. i used to give them a BBI, but i have seen them break them with silly mistakes.

but you have got to check out "little bens" posts- he kinda builds in that twilight zone between the two bow disciplines- also with very limited tools and resources- and builds exquisite bows- i know- i have one. and i love shooting it!! his designs look like glass bows- but are all wood!!!
lots of great builders on here- best in the world.i'm sure!!
and a more helpful and courteous bunch you will not find- even ol'Roy is OK   :D  - now there is someone who builds a beautiful tri-lam. some guys on here that can just tickle a bow out of some gnarley wood-
cheers

[Krasus]

I started out working with glass backed bows (I'm still a newb). I really like the stability but not how the fiberglass takes the finish I want. Built my first 2 with glass and have now moved onto my first all wood tri-lam. Kinda think I'm leaning towards the all wood bows though. Looks better and has a way nicer feel. Now i just need to actually shoot one lol.

[mikkekeswick]

I have been making natural material bows from the start and have only just recently made a few glass bows.
I too have had a few wood bows broken by being strung backwards, overdrawn, etc....
My real fascination is horn/wood/sinew composites.
a Horn bow is in many respects very similar to a glass bow.
I've made so many wood bows that they weren't a challenge to me anymore. I've made them from pretty much every single wood i've got access to and many different designs. I also started to get to the point where tillering them was getting to be a pain.
Glass allows you to make just about any shape and the real clincher is that you can use just about any wood under it. That glass strip is your number one golden rule - NO cut through violated grain to worry about. As soon as you make a laminated wood bow you are breaking this rule (unless you have that rare piece of flawless straight grain backing wood/bamboo...but even boo will lift splinters unexpectedly).
Which shoot the best imo.....horn/wood/sinew composites    With a well made composite you hardly even know you've let go of the string.

[kiltedcelt]

For me, the bows aren't the only aspect of the hobby/pastime. I also do leatherworking as well as make my own arrows. In addition to that, I got into making crossbows, both medieval/Renaissance and modern. With the crossbows, I've started branching out into some sort of medieval, but fantasy-inspired crossbows as well. What I'm trying to say, is I have a LOT of irons in the fire these days and mostly I'd rather make a fewer bows and have fun shooting them and making all the other stuff to go with them. For me, the cost, time spent with tools and such is greater for making all natural material bows versus glass bows.

To me, it's worth it to spend perhaps a little bit more for some glass and lams versus having to sort through an entire stack of lumber looking for that one piece of hickory, ash, ipe, whatever, just trying to find ONE piece that's worth my time and effort in terms of having good grain. Then, as Mike Keswick said, you can still have stuff like bamboo lifting splinters and such. Nah, I think I'm leaning more towards glass these days for simple durability and little to no tillering involved. I can experiment with a few other designs under glass but for the most part, I really like a Hill style bow with straight limbs and a no-nonsense grip. I think I'll probably expend most of my efforts in the direction of Hill style bows just with different types of woods, veneers under clear glass etc.

[michaelschwister]

I make self, sinew backed, BBO and fiberglass lam bows.  I prefer making selfbows. Doing math and buying parts is not as satisfying as getting a stave to perfect tiller before being strung.

[JamesV]

I did the all wood bow thing and realized after many many failures I don't have the patients or willing to spend the time to tiller a bow properly. I did build a lot of very good wood bows but my take on wood bows is: they are not worth the time and effort to build them. I can build a glass bow that will out-perform a wood bow for half the effort and they don't explode for no reason. But HEY if you enjoy building wood bows, my hat is off to you.

You asked for my take on both wood bows and glass bows so there you have it.

James

[scrub-buster]

All stave selfbows for me.  You should be able to find some osage in Illinois.  Buckthorn makes a fine bow also.  I know it grows in some parts of the state.

[mikkekeswick]

Self bows don't break for no reason James!
My wood bows can keep up with the majority of glass bows for pure speed. A very good wood bow should be hitting 180 fps - 190 fps @ 10 gpp.
Show me a faster glass bow without it being 'on the edge'.  

[takefive]

I make all wood bows from either boards or staves.  I'll probably try to make a glass bow someday, but I'm still learning so much from each wooden bow I make that I don't want to change gears yet.  Tillering is a love/hate thing for me, but I always look forward to starting the next bow.

Glass or wood?  Make the bow you want to make.  IMO it's as simple as that.

[eflanders]

I have only made all-wood tri lams so far so I am biased accordingly.  But I work with epoxy and glass in making small wooden composite boats.  

Building an all-wood tri-lam bow requires a lot more patience to properly tiller and better quality woods without any question. These are not bad lessons to learn for anyone wanting to make any good quality bow.  I am sure the same is true if working with a stave and that is my next project. My guess is that in making any all-wood bow you are going to make more mistakes that will show up fairly soon in the process, but these mistakes are very good lessons. The downside with making any all-wood bow is in finding suitable wood(s) to begin with.  Clear, straight grain wood 72" long is very hard to find and it is very expensive to buy accordingly.  For these reasons, I tend to believe making all-wood tri-lams (raw materials only) is more costly to produce in the long-run than most glass bows.    

Working with glass is far more toxic to you and others in the home and much harder on your tools (blades, etc.).  For these reasons alone I have stayed away from using glass and am likely to always do so.  I use glass when building boats and it is really nasty stuff on your tools.  This makes the production / tool cost go up dramatically vs. working with all wood.  What price do you put on your health?  Even with a proper respirator and coverings, I think it stills does damage to you and any pets you may have.  Believe me if it wasn't necessary to use glass and epoxy on the boats I have built, I wouldn't use it!

[Crittergetter]

I've only built a couple of either one. A few self bows and a few glass. I like glass because I suck at tillering an all wood bow and a lot of that is taken care of in the design of a glass bow. But I haven't given up. Got plans for a couple more self bows in the future. I personally would feel better if I had a better understanding of the whole tillering process of an all wood bow! I'll get there some day

[kennym]

I've done a couple selfbows and a few glass. I guess I'm more into the tech side of what a different taper or wedge or thickness or profile will do to a limb, but my main reason for doing more glass is durability. My selfies weren't great in that department.

So I'm a glass guy...

[Roy from Pa]

Tech Side?

Now that thar is funny....  

[kennym]

Rednecktech? Better?   :D

[critman]

I was wondering when Roy would chime in! Tell us what you REALLY think about this Roy!
Kenny, sold all the bows I have made last year to finance more bows. Except my first Kennym design bow.          

[kiltedcelt]

eflanders makes some good points about toxicity. However, there are just as many issues with toxicity when working with all-wood bows. Many of the exotic woods are toxic to one degree or another. I built a couple boo/ipe r/d bows and they needed very little tillering so there wasn't a whole lot of scraping involved which meant not a lot of exposure to dust. The next ipe bow I attempted was a self bow which involved tons of work with the rasp and I quickly found out that I was highly allergic to the dust. It raised a rash on my forearms and made a mess of my sinuses. After that, I swore off of ipe. I still have a boo/ipe r/d bow blank that I've never tillered out because I just don't want to risk another allergic reaction.

As far as fiberglass goes though, even though I say I live in an apartment, I don't do messy work like that indoors. I do all fiberglass shaping/sanding either outdoors or in a little workshop room in the basement of the apartment building that the building maintenance guy lets me use. I'll still do a glue up indoors in the apartment along with baking in the hotbox. Smooth-On EA-40 is a low VOC epoxy so I don't have any qualms about using that indoors around myself/wife/cats. I think I have more worries about getting cat hair (that stuff gets EVERYWHERE!), in the glue  :D

It's interesting to read the different replies though. Some folks love the nuances of teasing a bow out of a single piece of wood, while others enjoy the technical challenge of making little changes in glass bows. Like KennyM I think I lean more towards glass bows for durability's sake, but most of all, as I've mentioned before it's an aesthetic thing for me. Approaching building bows as a woodworker, I'm most attracted to the artistic aspect of being able to be able to create this piece of functional art using a number of different kinds of wood. I'll never disparage wood bows because I think they're amazing in their simplicity. All-wood tri-lams appeal to me because you can do some cool stuff with those in terms of wood combos, but for sheer mind-blowing it's crazy wood under clear glass.

I think some of the most amazing bows I've ever seen are the ones that are made with unusual wood veneers under clear glass. Couple that with a cool riser built up out of several different types of wood and you can easily get a bow that is a visual stunner and at to that the fact that you can take this piece of "functional art" out in the field and put meat on the table... you can't put a price on that.

I found with wood bows that I'd keep trying to make different designs and ended up blowing up tons of blanks that way. I think again it's my mindset in regards to tillering. I have my eyes more on the finished product and don't want to slog through making all those tiny little changes. I envision fiberglass bows as a way to plan out different wood combos and keep building subtle variations. I can see building a dozen different Hill style bows and just making them with different materials - say all bamboo with a myrtle wood riser for one (trad as it gets!), or say a bunch with clear glass and different veneers like zebra wood or marble wood or lace wood - whatever.

[Roy from Pa]

I was wondering when Roy would chime in! Tell us what you REALLY think about this Roy!


Nah that's ok, I like it here..  

[takefive]

Just read this thread on the PA forum.  Pretty encouraging for the wooden bow guys.

 http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,50364.0.html